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[ESPN/MacMahon] "Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta excited about future of the NBA franchise"

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Deuce, May 12, 2021.

  1. Magicsaint

    Magicsaint Member

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    Almost every owner says similar things. He has made very poor decisions and been constantly ranting and crying for money on tv during the pandemic. So I'll wait until he walks the talk when it comes to the Rockets.
     
  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    so the FA class of Dwight Howard. Lets see some of the rankings

    https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6...-agents-ranking-list-dwight-howard-chris-paul

    Damn look at Howard's ranking

    1. Dwight Howard
    Howard had a rough 2012-13 season. He was still a legit All-Star and All-NBA player. He earned it.

    That's how valuable a player like Dwight has become: even in a disastrous season in which his coach can't properly use his talents, in which he seems to be at open war with his teammates, in which he's recovering from back surgery while dealing with a shoulder injury, he's still good enough for 17 points and a league-best 12.4 rebounds per game. In his worst season in years, he finished No. 6 in total rebound percentage, No. 10 in block rate and No. 5 in effective field goal percentage.

    UPDATE: Howard has agreed to a maximum contract with the Rockets for 4-years and $88 million. Here's Mike Prada's analysis of how the Rockets remade their roster to lure Dwight to Houston.

    so the FA class of Chris Paul where he opted out to become a FA. Lets see some of the rankings

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694924-2017-nba-free-agent-rankings-post-trade-deadline-edition

    1. Kevin Durant, Small Forward, Golden State Warriors (Player Option)

    2. Stephen Curry, Point Guard, Golden State Warriors (Player Option)

    3. Blake Griffin, Power Forward, Los Angeles Clippers (Player Option)

    4. Chris Paul, Point Guard, Los Angeles Clippers (Player Option)


    We know how the other 3 played out. The irony. funny how you mention he was traded here. Obviously not knowing he opted out of that last year to become a FA. Yeah clueless
     
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  3. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    @DonatelloLimestone , I'm attempting to say this softly but I had trouble following your reply here. I don't know if you typed it on your phone or what but it's a little hard to follow. I still feel the need to pay you the respect of answering what I believe to be your points because that took you a while to type out.

    First off, regarding you the poster. I remember not very long ago when I started seeing your posts. I think you had 20 total at the time. The first one that caught my eye was so good that I went to your profile and read everything you posted at that time. I did it because I thought you had great potential for adding to the flavor of this already fantastic site, I still do. Go back and look if you want, but like 15 or so of your first 20 posts have likes on them from me. So if I reply to you specifically about all the Tilman negativity, it's because I've seen better material from you and my hopes are that you don't fall into the popular theme on Clutchfans, which is that anything even slightly negative is 'ALL TILMAN's FAULT'. He's got plenty to answer for, but he also probably has plenty of reasons for why he's done what he has. That doesn't mean you'd agree with them, but I guarantee he's acting on his own reasoning.

    I numbered your paragraphs to be able to reference them by adjusting what I quoted. I changed none of your words, just numbered paragraphs.

    1) He may not be lying about all in. It may be that you do not understand what he means when he says all in. Communication is pretty ****ed in this world. He might be saying he's willing to go all in for a team that's won it all and you're thinking he means to go all in when he's close according to your values of what's close. Neither you or Tilman are being fair to one another in this scenario I've put forth. The real scenario isn't actually out there either and it probably never will be and that's frustrating, but the reality is that he doesn't answer to individual fans and he's trying to communicate in a broad spectrum kind of way meant to entice fans to stay. The truth of what will happen is likely some range of possibilities.

    2) I don't know what the story is with the Nuggets owner so I can't comment.

    3) I think this paragraph is about learning from history and I think we can learn from our own history and the history other teams have to help us learn. That history–however–isn't recent regarding our own team. It's from 35 years ago when we drafted Hakeem. It's 8 years after we drafted him when we started putting guys around Hakeem that complimented him. We did a lot of that through the draft. Most good teams these days build out of a draft or they get stars to all agree to play here at the same time. We have little cap room to get three stars at once, so the draft is our friend right now. Stone has done an excellent job of mortgaging a team that didn't have enough to win for a future that might–if we draft correctly. My hope is that we will and I believe Tilman knows what he wants for Houston specifically.

    Houston is notorious for getting the shaft from the NBA and from officials during games. The NBA loves team basketball and the way Harden was officiated proves that to me. We needed a better team or better officiating. Better officiating ain't ever gonna happen so we need a great team. We were close, but injuries and personalities ruined what we had. I think Tilman is a pragmatist and knows we're gonna have to have guys that don't complain to the officials and try to win anyway. I think he gathered that type of talent that doesn't complain in most of these young guys. Houston teams just have to play hard and play well as a team because even the Dream Shake had to be slowed when it mattered in the playoffs and it was only when he decided his teammates were worthy... that we won.

    I do believe you are mourning the loss of competitive Rockets basketball. Most everyone on this site is. Just know that mourning right now is normal. We all lost our lives that we used to have due to Covid. We find mirrors to that loss in our daily lives and that is normal. The Rockets because of the situation are a mirror to our lives. We're thinking about 'what might be' every day that we walk outside with a mask on and can't shake hands with a stranger–that's so normal. This sucks right now. It does. That's because we're mourning. I'm mourning the loss of the 2018 Rockets too. That was almost so awesome. It's sad to see it go, but I happen to believe that it was time.

    4) Agreed. I loved Kevin Porter Jr and Christian Wood. I just hope Wood learns to play without getting all the calls. All the calls are not something Rockets get.

    5) Our NBA owner was a rookie recently. He made rookie mistakes. That doesn't mean he won't learn from his rookie mistakes. The assumption around here is that he won't, but anyone that locks down on their belief that he won't... they're the same type of people that gave up on KPj in Cleveland. Now we've got the 50/10 guy for nothing and they're griping about ownership on that one. See, sometimes Tilman wins. That was a win. Surely he'll win several more going forward. The culture being built inside the Toyota Center isn't flourishing, but it's showing promise if you watch the games. KJ Martin is badass. Porter, Tate... we have a few tools to put towards future winning. Ignoring that is ignoring the things Tilman's crew has done.

    6) It sounds like you'e afraid to lose what we've got. That's a real concern. We can only hope that the culture Tilman is trying to build is one that will work. I know he's taken dying restaurant chains and given them life. That is culture change when you revitalize a dying brand. Let's just hope he adjusts his models and it does more than his restaurants do when he does. This franchise is a bounce back franchise. This is the 3rd owner since I became a fan and I've never cheered for owners, I cheered for the Rockets. Regardless of what he does, they're my team.
     
  4. csc177

    csc177 Member

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    I mean Ainge was mentioned, he’s a GM, forgive me for making the connection to another GM. Not sure why we’d compare a team’s GM to another team’s Owner, though.

    (PS i know Tillman’s an idiot)
     
  5. vick

    vick Member

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    This is just Tilman pissing on all the Rocket fans, and telling us its just raining.
     
  6. Cstyle42

    Cstyle42 Member

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    Yup. Patient... he just needs to stfu. It's been since 95.
     
  7. DonatelloLimestone

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    Don, I appreciate the sincere and thorough post. You make some very good points that i agree with and some that I see things differently, all in all I think we both want the best for the rockets. I also appreciate you being able to take the time to translate my post, its a combination of bad spell check and lazy lack of editing that if giving a long winded answer, I should do better on here otherwise I'm just the dude under the freeway shouting stuff while people close their windows;)

    6)I'll start with 6 and go back up. I do agree about his business. No matter how much we make fun of reports of him not paying contractors or suing to not build tigers some outdoor space, hes been wildly successful in business. Not many have consolidated and accumulated that amount of restaurants and made it to an empire. I really don't care if its on debt or what not as there are a lot of vehicles to take risks and make things happen, and thus far he has done very well for themselves. I also don't mind if a family lives out there dreams and even over leverages themselves to buy a sports team- I would. But Sports teams are another type of business, the restaurant mentality doesn't translate into the NBA, now more than ever with rising revenues and money invested in the team. Here is a quote from him about what he takes pride on his food places:

    . “All my haters love to say, ‘Oh, his food sucks’ or whatever. But we’re consistent. The hot food’s hot, the cold food’s cold, the music’s right, the property’s clean. You don’t have burned-out lights, you don’t have cigarettes by the front door, you don’t have trash in the parking lots. You know what you’re going to get."

    His places are about ambiance, branding, and consistency. Like I said, he has a method and it works, great for him. But not a focus on excellence or even overtly saying the food is what it is, good enough. Once again, good job on his empire, no one is saying he doesn't deserve his Jets and his Planes. But the rockets, like Dolan learned, is not a typical market force. We have an emotional allegiance, geographical attachment and many of us will not just switch over to the next team. So we're very much at the mercy of a benevolent owner. The most an owner can offer is finances in the nba,otherwise they are quite replaceable when the product is the players let alone they share 50/50 revenue as well. So when he came off the bat and talked about upgrading facilities, that was great. It was chirps after. Staff, play development, all these things matter, investing in the infrastructure to make it a place where players get better. Silas has done great, our young guys are doing great and prospering, but we aren't upto Par to what the new age owners are doing and they are raising the bar. I sincerely hope Tilman will keep up. It isn't all about money, you can do it smartly. When he said he brought a new jet, under the latest tax changes, corporations can write off the price of an entire jet, thats smart. You could've also gone a few miles away from TC to an opportunity zone and not just build a facility but be able to get good credit on it, and develop that 'part of town'. If you're like the warriors, you can create a whole atmosphere(tilman has done this well in Galveston) and get other sources of income to parlay on the team profits as well, just as they are.

    5 and 2) I agree, he is a rookie. The reason I bought up the Nuggets ownership is when the young son Josh, took over the franchise bc the pops owned an nfl and soccer team and the laws wouldn't allow it due to some market forces, he came in as a young promising owner. He was noted to not be outspoken, had spent years in the front office, he also played college basketball and captained the team. Nonetheless, he was a rookie owner and made rookie mistakes. He Went on to say publicly about how many growing lessons there were and to him it was all about learning from those mistakes and errors and building on them .He owned up to it. He was trying to be respectful to all the people who pay, who spend time, and energy on his team that he would do better. He didn't have to do that. I get Fertitta's outspoken mentality is more branding akin to his reality show, like i said there are many ways to succeed, I'm fine if he does so. But once again, there is an inconsistency and I've quoted many of them. He will point fingers at others, continue to give whatever messages that seem to take blame off himself and as a paying customers after the last 3 years, it becomes quite exhausting. I'm fine with reform, you and I both have made mistakes. I've made mistakes with my business, I get it. But continuing to deflect, even rewrite history is showing a continued pattern of lack of self awareness and arrogance in this modern day.
    Finally, I agree with what you said. KPJ was a swing and a home run. i love it. Stone finding Tate, KMJ(who I have been touting since I got on here), and wood are all pieces that give me a lot of hope. I'm beyond excited by their talent and also their grit and mentality and what we can continue to build on.
     
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  8. DonatelloLimestone

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    3/4) I agree with you that the draft is our plan. I've made note of the importance of role players who don't make the headlines. But keep in mind, all these guys that we love and got on great rookie contracts, KMJ and Wood are going to be looking at 20 million+ in 2 years, and we might not be contenders then. TAte and KMJ are going to get their contracts in 3 years. If you have seen this past summer how much money role players got, the nba money is growing. Its easy to say this player is not worth this much, but nba shares in revenue, the new TV deal is said to be monstrous, the middle class in the nba will continue to grow and wages will grow there too. We can say they aren't worth it, but once again the par of the NBA to win will raise that much more. But, with stone's first year selections, the fact that we still have many morey's analytics team on there, I like the ball in Stone's hands. No doubt we are rebuilding and we are absolutely not in bad place to rebuild, much better then most, despite the fall off the cliff last year.
    As far as tilman being intentional in the rebuild. I 'll give you his quote again before the season :

    For all the changes to the Rockets since last season, with the departure of Mike D’Antoni as coach and Daryl Morey as general manager, owner Tilman Fertitta said on Tuesday that the stars of his roster will remain. The “window,” he said, is still open, giving him no reason for more widespread changes.

    -Jonathan Feigen
    "
    “You have James Harden and Russell Westbrook and you have almost 90 percent of your salaries tied up in them and Eric Gordon,” Fertitta said during an appearance on CNBC, as transcribed by the Houston Chronicle. “But anytime you have players like Eric, P.J. (Tucker), James and Russell, there’s no reason to blow up your roster.

    “This is still our window, the next couple years. James and Russell are in their early 30s. We’re not blowing up anything. We plan on contending. I always said you want to set yourself up to be one of the top four teams in your conference each year and then it takes a little luck to win. You look at every year it always takes a little luck. So, we’re going to set ourselves up to make the moves, to be one of the top teams.”"

    This was after Morey left, after MDA left, yes and during the trade demands.

    So either he was lying or not being as pragmatic and intentional as mentioned in his wanting to rebuild for more 'character' or guys who don't complain. And lets look back, the warriors are notable champions, Steph Curry is a nice mommas boy sure, but Green is also a face of that team making heavy money, getting defensive player of the year and has issues with complaining, technicals, and yes, even shots to the crotch...

    Lebron is lebron, but we all know he cries after each call. Kobe also was notoriously hostile with referees almost to the point of intimidation. before that we have the spurs, Coach Pop isn't exactly polite to the Refs,...to the media...or anyone. So while the NBA my put their thumb on the scale, the talent is still going to break through at one level or another.

    Furthermore, the rockets were the ones who publicly released in an unprecedented fashion a details report of refereeing in the middle of the series with the warriors. That is not common and then also takes away from the point that tilman is being intentional about making it a non complaining franchise. Its in line that our franchise has lead to a barrage of leaks for the harden issues and coincidentally we have an ownership who takes to the press and volunteers to do so more than cuban, more than anyone else and sought out a reality show. These are not things billionaires do, you have to seek it out. Im fine with him doing so, its his niche, but it goes against the idea that hes trying to build some quiet character. He has shown a consistency in throwing people under the bus, once again I hope you can see I'm going by his very own quotes. I watch everything rockets and business related and you can see the trend with him. My philosophy is if you're going to do that, thats fine, back it up. What I've seen with him is talk a lot, point fingers, hype up things. Its been consistent, and its been disappointing that the action doesn't follow the words.

    Finally on this point, I agree and we are all in someways mourning. Not only the rockets state of being at the bottom of the barrel, but yes with the changes this year we have more time to notice then ever and also getting quite spoiled with harden leading us to miracles the last few years. This is definitely a time for mourning, perhaps confusing, and looking for clarity. My personal take is this, we didn't have much to play for this year, at best we are looking for player development and scouting for the draft, not wins. So we have a lot of time in our hands not just with covid but the rockets currently. I think its a fair fall for grace. Rockets raised the prices on our company every such year, Like I said I'm not going anywhere. ITs a disappointing end to that era, but now with us being in the bottom of the barrel, of us being not just in the laughing stock of any message board but national tv, and even agents, its tough to swallow but I know there will be light at the end of the tunnel with our young talent. My take is that we have the right and almost natural since we're not rooting for any playoffs to 'mourn' until June 22nd. That day will be hell or high water and we'll either have celebrations and move forward or probably outrage for a few days, but then free agency and we still have other picks in the draft which stone and his team have shown compentence and its on to the next year.



    1) I can get if something was lost in translation, but I've put quotes up about goign all in, in fact I put one up from right before this season. There is no team in this world that is guaranteed a finals birth. Including this year, you have teams that are 'all in' of all markets paying heavy money like the Jazz, The suns, Lakers, Nuggets, CLippers. All of them have a shot, thats all you can ask for as you have to just swing and there are no guarantees in thsi league, but all of them have a chance and they all put hands on deck on players that were obviously worth it and many that are not headliners and thats what it takes in this league, suns are coincidentally paying Chris Paul who once again Tilman leaked as the worst contract in the business or sports(why he continues to put his foot in the mouth as a celebrity is tough on the rockets). On The east you have The NEts who took a lot of our talent and are paying not just for the stars but players many would say aren't worth it given the heavy tax bill, Spencer Dwindidlee, Deandre Jordan, Joe harris is makign 16 million, they've paid for associate head coaches, top notch everything. Likewise for Sixers, Milwaulkee we saw 'learned from their mistake of letting Malcolm go, and once they almost lost their cash cowin in Giannis, now overpayed for Jrue but they realized they don't have as much leverage in this league, like it or not players have more power in the modern nba and if we don't adjust, we are going to continue to lose and not draw talent. Furthermore Miami as a dark horse.

    So if he continues to sell this obscure goal post that he will pay for a finals team that doesn't exist, it seems like its his trend of selling. Maybe its a part of him as I've seen bc its what he knows to work to sell, but we have more access to information then ever, it doesn't hold up. Those role players, the cohesion matters, and they are all getting big money to retain at the current state. And he has said, time and time again, "morey went all in for harden" and thats why we're in our state of rebuild. I've posted many times the facts, that 90 percent of our moves were cost cutting including losing draft picks for that which don't help anyone, including our future prospects, but tilman fertitta.

    Lastly, I'll be happy to be wrong. None of this was some personal thing, I've mentioned how excited I was when he took over Les. But I've watched all his quotes, seen every move from the staff moves down to the players, and I don't appreciate being lied to or bullshitted by anyone, and thats what he has done. I'm fine if hes some natural overseller, but his actions have been the exact opposite.

    Yet, in life, in hoops, in anything I try to be pragmatic but a realist. I would not want my own employees to shut up and listen, not challenge things are wrong, and have yes men around me, I want to push things to be the best and that takes a mix of confidence and openess both ego and challenging the ego. I don't want a positive spin, I don't need hand holding to be positive. I can do both. I can take a punch straight and respond, I'd rather know exactly whats going on and most can see it as its public knowledge if you want to dive into the rabbit hole and he has a habit of overselling or embellishing his view to the point of insecurity for a guy branding himself as a billionaire who wont take minority owners out of pride and because he didn't need to.
     
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  9. DonatelloLimestone

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    @don grahamleone



    So I see that, I shake my head, and its odd different narratives of people putting words in tilman's mouth to instill hope. But none of that takes away, as i've mentioned on here, my excitement and hope for the guys who leave it on the floor. Silas has had a tough, tough job, but hes shown a knack for giving players good opportunities to succeed. The young guys are flourishing, Steph has credited Silas with indiidual workouts in his rookie year to help him, Kelly olynk a 30 year old vet to anyone who says you are who you are after 26 in this leauge came in and 5 more minutes has done double his previoute output. Stone has chosen guys like Tate, KMJ who were not highly touted and they are keepers. KPJ we got with a bit of luck, sometimes thats what it takes in the leauge, but we were first in line, he flourished in the dleague and is one of our most promising players and looks to be a possible all star. As is wood. This is his first year as 'the man'. Hes 25, he seems hungry to keep buildng and I can't ask for more in a player. tHats why I felt it wasn't a binary option.

    I appreciated your sincere approach,From one Don to another, from one guy whose on his third owner to another. I'm happy when I'm wrong or to learn more, but that type of dialogue you bring to the table simple put just adds to the community and makes this a message board. I don't think we should all just agree, I think there can be many good perspectives we bring together, appreciate it and no matter what, Go Rockets.
     
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  10. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I ain’t reading that
     
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  11. homewight

    homewight Contributing Member

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    Since he has done nothing but stupid **** during his whole ownership tenure, why would we expect him to change?
     
  12. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    He's not lying. He's telling you that we are tanking and we want to get valuable first round picks.
     
  13. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Bc it doesn’t matter in this case
     
  14. napalm06

    napalm06 Fertitta-McNair School of Management
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    This interview was probably taken from his yacht as he watched a live feed of minions painting more family murals at Toyota Center.

    EHCKI01WsAAt36K.jpeg
     
    #114 napalm06, May 13, 2021
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  15. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    I had hoped that Fertitta had been humbled by all that has happened with his business and his team but obviously that hasnt happened (and it is likely that a man such as he does not have humility). Regardless, IF he does what he has said he will do which is to turn over the personnel side to the guys who he hired to do that job (Stone and Silas) and not to the guy who he has tasked with the "brand" (Patrick) then there is hope. I am more optimistic than most about the direction of the team at this point (which is kind of funny given their record but I full expected putrid play when they dealt James). I/we will never like TF. He is, objectively, unlikable. He is brash and boastful and the epitome of entitled. He is a d-bag. BUT, if the team is well run and moving forward in the right direction, I think everyone will find a way to look past him being the owner. At least I hope that is the case (hope in one hand and $hit in the other...).
     
  16. DonatelloLimestone

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    Tilman, October 20th, 2020 with Houston Chronicle(after MDA left, After Morey left):

    The “window,” he said, is still open, giving him no reason for more widespread changes.

    “You have James Harden and Russell Westbrook and you have almost 90 percent of your salaries tied up in them and Eric Gordon,” Fertitta said in his weekly CNBC appearance, “But anytime you have players like Eric, P.J. (Tucker), James and Russell, there’s no reason to blow up your roster.

    “This is still our window, the next couple years. James and Russell are in their early 30s. We’re not blowing up anything. We plan on contending. I always said you want to set yourself up to be one of the top four teams in your conference each year and then it takes a little luck to win. You look at every year, it always takes a little luck.
    "


    Remember after the trade demand, Rockets said they were willing to get 'uncomfortable', they talked abotu getting an all star with wall and being able to make the playoffs with Woods. They hired a rookie coach and GM which might not look good to a star in his prime who saw 90 percent of the moves from the owner being cost cutting.

    some here say he knew he couldn't win with harden so he knew he had to rebuild, rockets themselves sent out a barage of 'leaks' shooting themsleves in the foot by critisizing him as the culture killer and the reason rockets sucked bc they pandered to him. They also, ironically, in the same article say they offered that same guy 100 million to stay.

    So one way or another, hes either lying there or now. Like I've said, I want to believe him, he is saying the right things now, but he has a history of contradictions:

    Another break down of the timeline of harden for the nerds who want more extensive material:








    By Nov. 11, Harden indicated to Russell Westbrook he wanted to be traded to Brooklyn. As a result, Westbrook asked out. Not because of Harden's partying tendencies or the Rockets' culture issues, but simply because he knew Harden wanted out, according to multiple sources close to the Rockets.

    Harden spent significant time in L.A. with Durant in mid-November and became fully committed to the idea of playing with the Nets. The two met to reaffirm their desire to play with one another and started laying the foundation for a trade, sources say.

    On Nov. 14—two months before the trade was officially announced—early talks between Houston and Brooklyn included Harden for Spencer Dinwiddie, Caris LeVert, Taurean Prince and Jarrett Allen. The picks weren't finalized at that point, but a verbal agreement was made, according to sources close to Harden and Durant. (A Nets spokesperson denies a verbal agreement was made at that time.) Harden and Durant believed the deal was done and celebrated the occasion together.

    By Nov. 17, news of the potential deal had spread across the league. Harden and Durant thought it would be finalized on Nov. 22, when trades could officially be announced. But Rockets management changed its tune. Harden, Durant and the Nets had underestimated the Rockets' capacity to posture for a better deal.

    "Houston was being difficult," a front-office executive familiar with the Rockets' negotiating tactics at the time told Bleacher Report."

    In the following days, Harden began making his partying increasingly public. He showed up to training camp late and appeared visibly out of shape. He believed he could force a trade if he could anger team governor Tilman Fertitta enough, according to sources close to Harden.
    "He would have to outdo what Jimmy Butler did in Minnesota," a rival Eastern Conference executive said.

    Then on Jan. 12, Harden drew a clear line in the sand, telling reporters the Rockets were "just not good enough."
     
  17. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    With all due respect, the pragmatist is deluded if he thinks he has any control at all over this team.

    The realist knows that full control is in the hands of a bombastic, arrogant owner who doesn't know what he's doing, and who completely dismantled a yearly contender in record time.
     
    #117 topfive, May 13, 2021
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
    don grahamleone and YOLO like this.
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Too manny words.
     
    napalm06 likes this.
  19. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
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    A blind pig finds a truffle....
     
  20. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
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    I'm just not one of those posters to get on the pity and self loathing train. Tilman is a **** owner but that doesn't mean he's automatically going to fail at everything Rockets related.
     

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