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ESPN INSIDER:John Hollinger compares NBA dynasties

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Brando2101, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. Brando2101

    Brando2101 Member

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    SAN ANTONIO -- Now that the San Antonio Spurs have won their second championship in three years with the Duncan-Ginobili-Parker crew, it's time to begin assessing their legacy. If the mini-dynasty ended right here, where would San Antonio rank among recent champions?

    To assess that, I compared this year's champions with eight other multiple winners (defined as having at least two titles in three seasons) of recent vintage. Let's meet our contestants:

    • The Shaq-era Lakers of 2000-02
    • The Jordan-Pippen-Rodman Bulls of 1996-98
    • The Rockets of 1994-95
    • The Jordan-Pippen-Grant Bulls of 1991-93
    • The Bad Boy Pistons of 1989-90
    • The Magic-Scott-Worthy Lakers of 1985-88
    • The Celtics of 1984-86
    • The Magic-Kareem-Wilkes Lakers of 1980-82

    Similar to my previous exercise ranking Shaquille O'Neal's championship teams, I used three criteria: Wins, margin of victory, and playoff wins and losses. I slightly modified the system since we're using multiple seasons. First, because we're dealing only with championship teams, I doubled the emphasis on playoff wins and losses -- effectively, it's only the losses that matter, since everyone has the same number of wins. (I prorated the team's playoff winning percentage to end up with 15 playoff wins, the amount needed to win a title for most of this era).

    Coaches To Win At Least 3 NBA Titles, All-Time
    Phil Jackson 9
    Red Auerbach 9
    John Kundla 5
    Pat Riley 4
    Gregg Popovich 3

    Second, I took the average score of the team's championship seasons and then gave five additional points for each title. That way, a two-time champ would only out-rank a three-time champ if it had been particularly dominant.

    And now, in reverse order, here are the rankings:

    No. 9: 1994-95 Rockets
    This team is certainly the weakest two-time champion in NBA history. Before I get any nasty letters from Texas, the key here is "two-time champion." Somebody has to be the worst, and none of the others went 47-35, or failed to register a 60-win season, and only one other lost a combined 15 playoff games in two seasons. Despite sweeping the Finals to win their second title, these Rockets lost seven playoff games and were on the ropes in elimination games in the first two rounds.


    No. 8: 2003-05 Spurs
    San Antonio would outrank the Magic-Kareem-Wilkes Lakers of the early '80s if it hadn't struggled so much in the playoffs. The Spurs lost two games in every round en route to the championship in 2003, and they dropped seven games while taking their second title this year. Otherwise, San Antonio is very similar to that Laker club -- two titles in three years behind a great player to build around (Duncan, Magic), a great center nearing the end (David Robinson, Kareem), and a franchise that looks set to win several more titles if nobody gets hurt.

    No. 7: 1980-82 Lakers
    Magic Johnson won two titles in his first three seasons with a cast that included Kareem, Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, but this was just the tip of the iceberg for America's most well-known theater owner. While these Lakers look good compared to our current champs, their 60- and 57-win seasons were relatively unimpressive compared to the top five champions.

    No. 6: 1989-90 Pistons
    The '89 version of the Bad Boys was especially potent, losing only two playoff games en route to Detroit's first-ever championship. But Detroit was very strong in both seasons, averaging 61 wins and 3.5 playoff losses in the two campaigns to put it near the top of the two-time champs.

    No. 5: 1984-86 Celtics
    The 1986 Celtics were the second-best team of the past quarter-century. Featuring four Hall of Famers in the frontcourt -- Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish and Bill Walton -- that club plowed through the regular season at a 67-15 clip and blew through a 15-3 postseason. Boston would rate ahead of the Shaq-era Lakers if its '84 champions had been anywhere near as strong, but that team lacked Walton and McHale and was just starting to blossom. In fact, that team lost eight playoff games and was the lowest-rated champion between 1980 and 1993.

    No. 4: 2000-02 Lakers
    Despite the extra title, the Shaq-era Lakers barely outranked the Celtics. L.A. had one great regular season (in 1999-2000), and one great playoff run (in 2001) but never did both in the same campaign. L.A. still might not have beaten out Boston had it faced a tougher opponent in the 2002 Finals, but the Nets of that season were one of the weaker finalists in recent memory.

    No. 3: 1985-88 Lakers
    This edition of the Lakers included one truly great team, the 1986-87 club that won 65 games and lost only three times in the playoffs. However, a year later they barely scraped by. Los Angeles won three consecutive series in seven games, including a nail-biting second round series against Utah and a Game 7 of the Finals against Detroit that went right down to the wire.

    No. 2: 1991-93 Bulls
    These Bulls made their mark early, sweeping the defending champion Pistons in the conference finals on their way to a 15-2 march through the postseason. Chicago won 67 games the next season, with a whopping 10.4-point victory margin, but the third season wasn't nearly as impressive. Chicago won "just" 57 games and had to fend off a strong challenge from Phoenix in the Finals to claim its first three-peat.

    No. 1: 1996-98 Bulls
    As if there were any doubt. The 1995-96 Bulls were simply the greatest team of all time, rampaging to a record 72 wins in the regular season and losing only three times in the playoffs -- twice after taking a 3-0 lead in the Finals. Their opponent was no slouch, either -- Seattle won 64 games and swept defending champion Houston in the second round. Overall, those Sonics were probably better than several teams that won a title, but chose the wrong year to put it all together.

    Jordan's Bulls didn't slack off much the next two seasons, winning 67 and 62 games and facing only one Game 7 in the three seasons. Overall, the Bulls lost fewer playoff games in winning three titles than the Spurs did to get two.

    Not that the Spurs care, of course. That ring feels just as good on your finger whether you went 72-10 or 47-35. Now, can they make it three out of four?
     
  2. Brando2101

    Brando2101 Member

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    he might have a point. We had heart but he's comparing us to the best teams in basketball history. Even being in the same breath as those other teams is pretty nice.

    (if only the 97 team could of taken on the bulls :( )
     
  3. Rockets34Legend

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    Where's the link to this article?
     
  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    He's measuring dominance, not ability. In terms of showing how dominant each team was in their particular era, I guess it's fine. It doesn't make one better than another.
     
  5. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    This guy needs to get hit by the Metro Light Rail.
     
  6. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Just goes to further illustrate the fact that the only thing which really matters is how you finish.

    The Rox' first championship is mostly just a dull memory; it certainly wasn't pretty. And the second one followed a frankly disappointing regular season, and we entered the playoffs without much hope or hoopla.

    But then the magic time came, and, regardless of where the Rockets may be 'ranked' among multiple-ring-holders, our second run to the championship was the greatest playoff run of all time, at least where excitement and drama are concerned.

    And people can think whatever they want, but count me among those who firmly believe that we would have clobbered anyone in that second finals series, no matter who the opponent was, and that includes the Bulls.
     
  7. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Lets also thank San Antonio for giving Dennis Rodman away to the Bulls.
     
  8. SA Rocket

    SA Rocket Member

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    Dominance against teams in your era is one thing, but you can't use that as the measuring stick to compare champions to one another. Just look at the Spurs and Pistons who just clobbered each other. They went seven games not because they weren't as good as those Bulls teams, but because they were both as good as each other. Either of these two could have competed well and/or won against those Bulls teams.

    I'm not picking on the Bulls, they were great, but I don't think that group could win 72 games in today's NBA. The league just has much better balance and a greater number of strong teams. You'd have to draw just the right playoff opponents to not lose more than 3 or 4 games.
     
  9. Beck

    Beck Member

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    I would take my chances with the Rockets against those other teams. I'm not saying we would win against every one of those teams in a series, but I think we would beat a few and be very competitive in others.
     
  10. leroy

    leroy Member
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    I can't competlely disagree with the article. I do think that the Rockets would have matched up well with many of the other teams listed. I think they would have taken the Pistons, the 2000-02 Lakers, and the 1st 3-peating Bulls. It would have been good against the 2nd round of Bulls titles. Not too sure about beating the Cetics or 80's Lakers.
     
  11. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I don't want to see any Rockets fans who rooted for the Spurs to get upset by this. I would like to see you burn your Rockets gear and just become a full-fledged Spurs fan, though. :)
     
  12. m_cable

    m_cable Member

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    Delete. Wrong thread.
     
  13. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Interesting note... There are currently 30 teams in the NBA. In the last 20 years, only 6 teams have won titles:

    Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Bulls. Rockets, Spurs

    In other words 80% of the teams in the league haven't won a title in at least two decades, if ever. And the Rockets have done it twice -- THREE times if you count the 2005-2006 season. ;)
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    People think its harder to compete in baseball but I would argue that its harder to compete in the NBA because it is such a superstar driven sport. Interestingly, Detroit have been the exception to that rule both times. Anybody can spend money but there are only an infinite number of guys you can find to truly be a franchise player in the NBA.
     
  15. m_cable

    m_cable Member

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    I think you mean finite.
     
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    :eek: yes
     
  17. declan32001

    declan32001 Member

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    I don't find this offensive at all. There was a hell of a lot of adversity in both of our championship seasons. And compare out talent level to the Lakers or Celtics dynasties. I mean, that's just a hilarious thought.

    We know Dream had a lot of help, but those championships are due to his singular greatness.
     
  18. BigM

    BigM Member

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    if you look at the teams the rockets beat to win their two rings than it looks 2 or 3 times more impressive than the crap that san antonio went through to get their rings. the level of talent has watered down significantly. put barkley's suns, shaq's magic, or malone's jazz in 2005 and they all win easily. seriously, does anyone think any of san antonio's teams would pose a challenge against dream's rockets?
     
  19. ico4498

    ico4498 Member

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    i don't have a problem with the listed order. its impossible to accurately compare teams from different generations facing different opponents. too many variables to consider ...

    that said, i gotta wonder why the 95 team is dissed for regular season wins if they're not gonna be rewarded for running the gauntlet on the most imposing set of opponents in playoff history. in 95 we beat teams with more reg. season wins than any other NBA champion in history. Utah had 60, Suns 59, Spurs 62, Magic 57.

    all the greatest ever talk is doomed to ultimate futility ... but at least keep the measuring stick consistent.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    that's what I was thinking, yeah san antonio has the numbers but does anyone seriously think they could beat either of the Rockets championship teams?
     

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