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[ESPN] Cruz Jr. Traded to D-Backs

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rikesh316, Feb 6, 2005.

  1. rikesh316

    rikesh316 Member

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  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Exactly why do the Astros need a soon to be 31 year old .240 hitting outfielder?
     
  3. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    For what it's worth, I was in Casey's wedding...
     
  4. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Cheo Jr for a guy who was Bosox' Elarton. Same end result, too.
     
  5. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    This falls under the no move was the best move.

    Unlike Griffey and Bonds, this Jr. isn't better then the old man.
     
  6. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    They basically wanted someone equivalnet to Redding. The deal would have been a no brainer.
     
  7. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Member

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    ESPN's Fantasy Insider has some stuff people should read on Cruz..rather, things I agree with ;)

    Anyway, Cruz is now in Arizona. What does it mean? Cruz was never a top three rounds selection, but he does a 30-30 season on his record. In 2002 drafts, coming off his career zenith of .274-34-88-32 in 2001, he was overrated as a guy you could make a second or third outfielder. That's not Cruz. His career average is .250, he's not durable, and he has nearly as many strikeouts as hits in his career. The Jeromy Burnitz comparisons can begin. In Arizona Cruz will play center field, and he can help you late as a fourth or fifth outfielder. He does walk quite a bit, but has only 23 steals the last three seasons. He's going to be 31 soon. Figure on a .250-20-75-10 season for Arizona.
     
  8. Yao Wink

    Yao Wink Member

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    The power, speed, and Gold Glove defense would have helped the Astros. His salary, K's, and low BA not have been to cool. Hopefully this isn't a sign that the Astros aren't looking to get better but a sign that there is complete confidence in Jason Lane having a great year.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Speed? 11 stolen bases last year.
    Gold Glove defense? Cruz led all AL right fielders with 10 errors last year (ooops, make that center fielders and left fielders as well, also make that all ML outfielders)
     
  10. Yao Wink

    Yao Wink Member

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    Speed to cover ground in the outfield is still speed. He has played every outfield position in his career. Maybe he didn't steal over 30 bases (he has only done so once in his career year of 2001) but speed can be measured in more ways than stolen bases.

    Bagwell has had 2 seasons of over 30 steals, and he is considered a good base runner rather than a stolen base machine.

    Gold glove defense ... he won a freakin' Gold Glove. Was that a fluke, or was his 10 error season a fluke? Maybe he is somewhere in between, but he is capable of playing defense at the ultimate level ... as he has proven in the past. The potential is there, where as a player like Biggio or Palmeiro will be limited in the outfield.

    (If you want to be technical, Craig Monroe had 11 errors last season and Vlad had 9 errors in less games. Even multiple gold glove winner Mike Cameron had 8 errors in about 15 less games than Cruz.)

    Regardless, Cruz has strengths that could have helped our team: his potential power and defensive prowess. Relative to what is out there in the outfield for the 'Stros, he would have been an upgrade in those regards.
     
  11. RocketFan007

    RocketFan007 Member

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    It wasn't even a fluke, it was theft. There's no way he deserved it more than Richard Hidalgo that year.
     
  12. Yao Wink

    Yao Wink Member

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    2003
    ---------------------------Jose Cruz, Jr. -------------Richard Hidalgo

    Total Chances------------------360------------------------303
    Put Outs ---------------------- 340 ---------------------- 277
    Assists ------------------------ 18 ------------------------ 22
    Errors -------------------------- 2------------------------- 4
    Double Plays ------------------- 18 ------------------------ 5
    Fielding Percentage ------------ .994 --------------------- .987


    While I personally wanted Hidalgo to win the GG in 2003, it is hard to argue that one deserved it more than the other. I am sure being on that year's Giants helped Cruz, Jr. a lot.

    Feel free to praise my formatting :)
     
  13. msn

    msn Member

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    Exactly--they do not. Because of the sting of the Beltran non-signing and the letdown after two years of Kent or Pettitte-Clemens, every move made by other clubs will have some Astros fans wrining their hands and running in circles exclaiming, "Everyone else is getting better and we're not doing anything! Oh, no, we're going to be CELLAR-DWELLERS!! McLane is a tightwad, and Purpura sucks!!!11!1" :D
     
  14. msn

    msn Member

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    While those numbers are compelling, defensive stats are the weakest of indicators of actual performance. Watching Hidalgo and Cruz play the outfield, Hidalgo is clearly better. Nice formatting!
     
  15. sonique15

    sonique15 Member

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    We could have at least used him for depth.....the dbacks got him for freakin casey fossum.....we could have given them one of our underachieving relievers. Good switch hittin bat, either in the field or comin off the bench. What if Burke isnt ready and u need Bigg back at 2nd.....u want Palmeiro a starting outfielder?? Cruz coulda been good insurance at worst.....Plus he wants to be here!!
     
  16. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Cruz is a career .250 hitter who has never hit higher than .274. Look at his yearly averages:

    .248, .253, .241, .242, .274, .245, .250, .242

    I find it hard to believe that so many people are up in arms because the Astros didn't acquire Cruz Jr. If his name was Jose Santos, I doubt this discussion would be taking place.
     
  17. gunn

    gunn Member

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    Batting average is overrated. He is still a solid 4th or 5th outfielder, which is exactly what we would have needed him for. Asking him to be more than that is probably a stretch, but his obp last season was .004 lower than Biggio's and he still draws alot of walks; a pretty good addition to the bench I would say.
     
  18. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    I think it has more to do with who we could have gotten him for. If we could have landed him for a guy of redding's calibur...or Gallo for that matter, its a no brainer.
     
  19. Buck Turgidson

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    According to Justice, the only 'Stro the D-Rays wanted was Lane.

    Lane for Cruz sound good to you?

    Me neither.
     
  20. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    I find that hard to believe given that they took Casey Fossum.
     

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