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Enough Already -- Stop Funding the Taliban Through Opium Prohibition

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by GladiatoRowdy, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Enough Already -- Stop Funding the Taliban Through Opium Prohibition
    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/507/stop_funding_the_taliban_through_opium_prohibition

    David Borden, Executive Director

    The drug war is in part a human rights issue. With half a million people in prison for nonviolent drug offenses, with medical mar1juana providers being hounded by the authorities, with needle exchange programs that are needed to save lives getting blocked, the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy itself opposing San Francisco's proposed safe injection site (when did it become wrong to save lives?), with countries pressured by us to spray their lands with harmful chemicals to attack unstoppable drug crops, the United States through its drug policy has become a major human rights violator. It is a sad chapter.

    We at DRCNet partly see drug reform as a human rights movement, and so ten years ago when very few Americans had heard of the Taliban, but the UN and the Clinton administration intended to fund them to do opium eradication, we condemned the Taliban in this newsletter and criticized the proposal. The fear of human rights advocates was that the brutal regime would be able to use the money to further establish its hold on power. Anyone who watched the footage of Taliban atrocities airing on US news stations after 9/11 can understand why that's a bad thing. Other reasons for opposing the Taliban are quite well known now.

    Today we continue to fund the Taliban -- we don't say we do, we claim to be fighting them, we even send our soldiers to fight them in person -- but we are funding them. We are funding them by prohibiting drugs. Because drugs are illegal, they cannot be regulated, and so their source plants are grown wherever and by whomever is willing and able to gain a foothold in the market. For a large share of the global opium supply, at the moment that means Afghanistan. And the Taliban are cashing in on that.

    And how. Just this week, a NATO commander said opium may provide as much as 40% of the Taliban's revenues, hundreds of millions of dollars -- some experts say it's more like 60%, he added. If opium-derived drugs were legal and regulated, that wouldn't happen. And governments are therefore at fault for creating a funding source for a movement that is destabilizing Afghanistan, that is abusing the rights of its people, and that may still be helping Al-Qaeda, all of this five years after we thought we had gotten rid of them for good.

    US officials continue to press for more opium eradication, but experts agree that eradication helps the Taliban too, by driving the farmers into their arms -- of course while failing to reduce the opium crop, instead only moving it from place to place. And while Afghanistan's government has not unleashed all the eradication the US government wants, it has done enough to hurt. A hundred thousand Afghans are employed in the opium trade and don't have another way to make a living. We can't just tell them they can't grow opium anymore, and expect them to comply or that serious damage to the nation-building and counter-insurgency programs won't result.

    Ten years ago, the west helped the Taliban for the sake of fighting the drug war. Today, the Taliban is an enemy, and we fight the drug war supposedly to fight them, but in the process instead help them -- see how no matter what direction the drug war compass points, one way or its opposite, it never points to anywhere good. That is why I say, enough already, stop funding the Taliban and other dangerous people through drug prohibition, legalize drugs to make this world a safer place.
     
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    We should really ban anyone from linking stories from 'stopthedrugwar.com' or similar propaganda sites. It's the equivalent of posting a rumor from a link from "realgm" on the GARM forum.
     
  3. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    I would hate to live in the world that you want to live in, andymoon...
     
  4. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Like in Europe? ;)
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    If you were to ban "propaganda" sites, you would similarly have to ban links to the ONDCP website.

    I note that you have never been able to comment on the substance of any article I have posted regarding the drug war, much less my analysis or comments on the same topic.

    Keep attacking the source as these attacks prove that you have no substantive arguments on the subject.
     
  6. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Really? The world that I want to live in is one in which children find it between difficult and impossible to acquire drugs, drug overdoses are a thing of the past, and jail cells are reserved for violent and predatory criminals. In addition, the system I would create would ACTUALLY reduce drug abuse and would minimize the harms that drug use and abuse have on our society.

    I guess the world you want to live in has drugs available to any schoolchild, sees a half million people in jail for nonviolent offenses, arrests 750,000 people a year for mar1juana possession (not dealing, simple possession, per FBI statistics from 2006), and exacerbates every harm that drug use and abuse has on our society on top of creating harms that would not exist in the absence of prohibition.
     
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    as opposed to the one running a successful war on drugs right now?
     
  8. halfbreed

    halfbreed Member

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    How would you make it difficult to impossible for kids to acquire drugs by legalizing them? They seem to find it very easy to get their hands on alcohol and cigarettes. I'm not against the legalization of certain substances but this seems like an extremely optimistic Utopian situation you put forward; one that is very unlikely to be true.
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    it was much easier, cheaper and convenient for me to score illegal drugs than alcohol when i was in high school.

    if you are a parent, you might not want to hear it, but its really easy to buy narcotics in school. much, much easier than trying to buy a bottle of strawberry hill from the corner store.
     
  10. halfbreed

    halfbreed Member

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    I'm not a parent. I graduated high school in 2003 and I can tell you it was extremely easy for anyone there to get anything (legal or illegal). Drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. You name it and someone could get it for you quickly.
     
  11. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    i graduated in 93 and it was much, much easier for me to get acid or pot than it was alcohol or even cigarettes.

    im sure andy can quickly provide the statistics, but doesnt the netherlands have lower drug-use rates for their children, despite having legalized drugs?
     
  12. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    US children are on lithium and prozac at younger and younger ages. I consider those things to be more dangerous than acid or pot
     
  13. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    definitely agree with that!

    but the people pushing those drugs on us pay lots of money to our elected representatives to be able to push those on us.
     
  14. conquistador#11

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    they should learn from plan colombia
     
  15. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    If you look at statistics over the course of the last decade, you will see that since the "We Card" programs started in the early to mid-90s, tobacco availability to young people has dropped by 25% and alcohol availability dropped by 50%. A recent study found that young people find it easier to acquire illegal drugs than alcohol.

    A recent study was also done that compared drug usage levels between Amsterdam and San Francisco and it found that adult rates of mar1juana use showed statistically insignificant differences between the two cities while teenage usage in Amsterdam was half the rate in SF.

    Yes, I believe that we can create a system of regulation that allows adults to purchase what they like and reduces the access that young people have to drugs. You can deride my view as "Utopian," but statistics and hard data tend to back up my assertions.
     
  16. halfbreed

    halfbreed Member

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    Who did these studies and what was their methodology? From someone who graduated in the last 5 years, I can tell you it would have been just as easy to get alcohol and tobacco as it would have been to get drugs.

    You have any links to these studies? I'm actually interested in how they came about that information.
     
  17. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Here is one...

    Regulated mar1juana Sales in the Netherlands
    Since 1976, the cultivation, sale, and possession of small amounts of mar1juana have been officially tolerated by the government of the Netherlands. While technically illegal, a written policy of “tolerance” has permitted hundreds of retail mar1juana businesses (“coffee shops”) to operate with impunity. The anti-mar1juana laws are only enforced against those creating a nuisance or violating quantity limits. Sales of hard drugs and sales to minors are strictly forbidden.

    As in the U.S., Dutch mar1juana use rates have risen and fallen in the last 30 years. Overall, though, mar1juana use rates in the Netherlands remain dramatically lower than in the U.S. The latest Dutch government figures,
    from 2001, show that 17% of Netherlands residents age 12 and up have ever used mar1juana.9 In contrast, 40.1% of Americans aged 12 and up have used mar1juana.10

    A detailed comparison of youth mar1juana use rates in the Netherlands and the U.S. appears in Section II.

    http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pdf/TeenUseReport.pdf

    This is a gathering of statistics that shows that teen mar1juana use is half what we see here in the states.



    The following link is the study that shows that criminalization has no net effect on rates of drug use, citing the similar usage rates in Amsterdam and San Francisco...

    http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/ful...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT



    Next up, the data that showed that illegal drugs are easier for teens to acquire than alcohol...

    More than one-third of teens polled by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse said they could buy mar1juana in just a few hours, 27 percent in an hour or less.

    For the first time since the study began in 1996, mar1juana edged out cigarettes and beer as the easiest drug for teenagers to buy -- 34 percent said it's the easiest of the three, compared with 31 percent for cigarettes and 14 percent for beer.


    This was in 2002 and was pulled directly out of the government's data.
     
    #17 GladiatoRowdy, Oct 30, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  18. halfbreed

    halfbreed Member

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    Thanks for that. I'm still skeptical, however. It merely says that it's easier to buy pot "within the hour." I wouldn't disagree with that. That doesn't mean that you can't get alcohol or cigarettes within a reasonable time frame (a day), as well.

    Also, if made to choose, most students might say it's easier to obtain mar1juana. However, that doesn't mean that it's not just as easy to obtain the others, just that if made to choose, students. I never said it wasn't easy to obtain drugs. I just think that it's not that much more difficult to obtain any of the other items that are safeguarded through ID purchases.

    Either way I still don't think that those stats prove that it's between difficult and impossible to acquire anything regulated through ID purchases.
     
  19. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Contrary to my typical libertarian leanings, I oppose legalization of drugs completely. I think the war on drugs is idiotic and prison for possession or even distribution is ridiculous, but I would rather still see the laws on the books for now.

    Why? Because employers need drug tests. The fact is that drugs (mar1juana, the least of which, but still part of the problem) cause poor performance on the jobsite. In a competitive environment, an employer needs the ability to screen those applicants to avoid those problem employees. I have a hard time imagining, with the labor laws that we have, the ability to test for legalized drugs. And before you say that employers shouldn't care, if it doesn't effect their job performance, I'm talking about the ability to screen for potential problems during hiring decisions.

    If I had more confidence that the freedom of employers was going to be protected, I would support complete legalization, but I haven't seen that pattern recently.
     
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I still don't see how it is easier to obtain illegal drugs than it is to grab a beer from your parents' (or friends' parents') refrigerator.
     

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