Either start Lin, or bring in a new starting PG, Bev ain't cuttin' it.

Don't be so sure until the Rox has gone all the way. And a lot of posters are wanting CP3, Rondo, ...

 

This is one of those myths people on clutch like to repeat. That with Harden we don't need a decent PG or Lin makes Harden worst or Bev fits better with Harden. Or a PG can't get asts with Harden...

Lin started all 82 games last season and led the Rockets in APG. Harden looked amazing last year playing next to Lin. In fact he looked better last season then this year.

This season, Lin has started games with Harden when Beverly was out the Rockets looked pretty good and Harden played well with Lin starting next to him.

It's just 1 or 2 well respected Clutch posters say something and the whole forum follows with misinformation.

Of course Harden should play with a traditional PG who can run an offense. This would improve Harden's FG% a lot

 

Some people here have to make extraordinary excuses for Bev starting. It's getting to the point people need think before regurgitating the same nonsense.

 

Is he REALLY the best defensive guard by far? Or is that only against a certain type of opposing PG. I've seen too many nobodies PGs abusing Bev like they were playing against the worst Defensive PG in the league.

Against some taller, stronger PGs I would argue Lin is a better defender.

 

It's a pity that things can't be patched up with Lowry.

 

Lowry is a good player. Asik is a good player.

Those guys are not going to take being benched or having their minutes greatly reduced sitting down. Those guys can be starters for half the teams in the NBA.

Only Jeremy the devote Christian likes to be so meek and lets a scrub like Bev take his starting job and minutes and not make a fuss about it to the media or ask to be traded.

At least Dragic and Howard are great players.

Lin is letting a scrub like Bev take his starter job and minutes and hardly a complaint to the press about it.

 

Sorry for the delayed reply but I got distracted doing some online Christmas shopping. lol No doubt that Lin has fallen off some due to a few bad games and injuries.

My point is that the majority of the time when people compare Lin v Bev on here, Lin fans can still substantiate it with the numbers and Bev fans use things like the eye test and their own basketball expertise and gut feelings. If people want to lay down the numbers for comparison and make valid points then I'm all good with that.

Since this thread is all about starting Lin over Bev, a few Bev numbers to examine:

Bev has only shot over 40% from the field once in the last 10 games (the anomaly in GS). Not including the recent 2 games where he barely played due to injury, Lin has shot over 40% from the field in every game but 1 this season.

Bev is only averaging 2.3 assist/gm. That's a starting PG in the NBA who is averaging over 32 min/gm.

The steals and the blocks are pretty even, especially when accounting for Bev's extra minutes (which is surprising since everyone says that Bev is so amazing on D). And yes, Bev gets 2 more rebs a game than Lin but out of all of the things that you want a PG to do, that's really towards the end of the list.

Frankly, those numbers scare me and don't give me confidence that we can be a championship calibre NBA team with a guy who only gives you what Bev gives you on offense. And no, James Harden is not a traditional PG. He's a shoot first guard and there's nothing wrong with that since he's a stud at what he does- but we still need a real PG if this team is to go further than the first or second round.

In a true PG v PG battle, Lin is either as good or significantly better than Bev and we would be a better team with him at the helm.

 

I've said it before… Harden would make life so much easier on himself if he didn't try to be the man so much and just let Lin play point. He wouldn't get as tired, he could save more energy for the defensive end and he could actually find himself open a little more by letting Lin initiate the plays and drawing the defense. It doesn't seem like Rocket science to me.

Also, Phoenix has looked great the last few games with Bledsoe and Dragic teaming up together. Both guys are getting around 5 assists a game and scoring plenty. There is enough ball to go around with 2 good point guards and it allows them to make it easier for the rest of the team.

 

I can't see why Bev is starting over Brooks.

AB's is a stellar 3 point shooter. Most of the people who want Bev starting next to Harden point to Bev's "good 3 point shooting".

 

defense....

 

The Knicks had their best season last year in a decade and they always started 2 PGs. Usually Felton and Kidd and it worked out pretty well for them and they have Melo who demands the ball as much if not more than Harden. They won over 50 games and won a playoff series.

Saying with Harden you don't need a PG is only something some misinformed fans here say especially since Harden played with Westbrook in OKC and last year Harden was at his career best with Lin starting all 82 games next to him.

 

IT2 had a pretty good game tonight. Got the best of Bev.

 

Bev is inconsistent on defense. He played poorly on defense so many games. But he is consistently poor on offense.

Brooks is a good offensive player and he has lots of NBA experience starting.


12/15 against the Kings
Bev 31 minutes
Isiah Thomas scored 19 points on 7/12, 58 FG%

12/4 against the Suns
Bev 42 minutes
Bledsoe/Dragic scored 39 points on 13/25, 52 FG%

12/2 against the Jazz
Bev 38 minutes
Burke/Burks scored 42 points on 19/29, 65.5 FG%

11/30 against the Spurs
Bev 37 minutes
Parker scored 27 points on 13/27, 48.1 FG%

11/20 against the Mavs
Bev 37 min
Calderon/Larkin scored 21 points on 7/13, 53.8 FG%

11/16 against the Nuggets
Bev 27 minutes
Lawson 28 points on 11/19, 57.8 FG%

11/13 against the SixersBev 42 minutes
Andersen 36 points on 12-16, 75 FG%
Wroten 18 points, 10 reb, 11 asts

Who did the incredible Bev stop?

 

You forgot to include the first few minutes of the season opener when Kemba Walker scored 8 points off of Bev before I had time to sit in my seat and take the first sip of my beer. Thank goodness we brought in Lin, the defensive specialist (lol), who was able to shut him down.

If people look at the numbers they will see that Bev's defensive is effective at times but for just as many games, easily as ineffective. But I think more and more people have seen that he just can't give you that same intensity for the entire game and his inexperience or over-zealousness to make a big play, ends up costing us too.

 

I think many people want Lin gone because everyday Lin's here, their statements about Lin sucking, Toney Douglas being better, Beverley being great, Brooks being great, Lowry being way better than Lin, Dragic being way better than Lin, Lin can't shoot 3 pointers, Lin can't finish, Lin can't play off the ball, Lin can't this can't that, just makes them look stupid.

And they can't wait for Lin to go so they can change their tune about Beverley and McHale, so that the LOFs can't say to them "I told you so" ...

They need the LOFs to leave this site so they can quietly go back to the Official Fire McHale thread, or Harden shouldn't play PG thread (that's why they want Rondo, but they don't want to say just give the ball back to Lin), or Harden should play some defense thread (without letting LOFs say I told you so), or the Patrick Beverley really isn't that great of a defender thread.

It's just that Clutchfans need to complain. And with Lin here, and in general playing pretty well, it's difficult to complain about the players that really deserve it because the LOFs will say "I told you so".

As far as I'm concerned. Lin needs to get better, but as long as he's still here, he's a better option than Beverley. You won't get someone available and better than Lin for $8m/yr to cap hit, and you wont' get anyone that can run the PG position and be a reasonably two-way player (and Harden insurance) for much less than $8m/yr to cap hit. Beverley is great as a defensive change of pace guy off the bench, but that's what he is at this stage. And McHale/Sampson both are mediocre, and shouldn't be part of the Rockets' long-term future.

As soon as people come to the realization that it's ok to be wrong, and it's ok to let LOFs be right about some things (they're terribly wrong about some things also), the quicker they can actually stop preferring things detrimental to the Rockets, like wanting to trade Lin for a bag of peanuts.

 

To be fair, I only chose games Bev started and played heavy minutes and was terrible on D.

The season is very early and he already has a list of duds on D for a "legendary defender". There has been many games he was mediocre on D and I didn't mention them. There has been many games he didn't play 30+ minutes and I didn't mention them. There were games he missed due to injuries.

Then there are the few handful of games Bev has been amazing on D against a small/quick PG.

Bev is a situational defensive specialist. Best used for a stop here or there and nothing more.

Lin haters just hype him into a "legendary defender" and also exaggerate his "good fit" next to Harden played pretty well with Lin starting 82 games next to him last year.

But you are right there are many more games Bev's D was lacking that I did not include on my list

 

Let's face it, Lin is better than Beverly. It's my opinion that people are willing to stomach Bev as the starter so that they don't have to hear the "rah rah"ing of the LOFs. I want to root for Lin but not with people on this site at every moment saying "see, isn't he so good, he should be an all star, he should be the primary option on offense, if only he had a team built around him." That gets annoying as hell.

I just wish both sides would see the reality of the situation. Lin isn't a scrub, he's a legit NBA starting point guard. He's also not some Lebron like talent that deserves to have a team built around him.

 

Perhaps you will be happier. True Rocket fans will not unless we get a quality pg in return for Lin. Some so called fans seem to hate Lin a nice guy to the point of wanting him gone at all cost, even if it means we get nothing valuable back which can make up for the loss of Lin's playmaking, penetration and scoring skills. Just dump him to an eastern team and everybody happier? And when Harden is injured we will still be happy with Bev as the playmaking pg? How can true Rocket fans be happier to see the team losing a great playmaking pg who has improved vastly from last year? Some said if he can spot up 3, they will be happy. Now he is shooting close to 40% 3s, amongst the highest in the team, much better than Bev, haters want him gone regardless. Now they want to get rid of him because of bringing peace to this board. Some Rockets fans!!!

 

You are spot on. Lin is better than Bev.

Some people basically lie and say Bev is a good starter simply because they dislike fans of Lin and do not want Lin to do well so his supporters can go rah rah.

But my primary problem is with the coaching staff. It is beyond dumb for them not to start and give the majority of PT to the best player.

Fans on clutch can say anything they want. The coach should play the best player.

 

spot on