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Edward Snowden may have just killed the Patriot Act

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, May 10, 2015.

  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I thought this would be a bigger deal.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/07/us-usa-security-nsa-idUSKBN0NS1IN20150507

    which led to this ->

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/07/nsa-phone-records-program-illegal-court

    -> which is leading to this

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-reauthorise-patriot-act-on-hold-court-ruling

    The opinion also notes that none of this could have come to bear without the efforts of a certain government contractor who revealed a bulk phone metadata collection program that had exceeded its legal reach and was allowed to do so by being hidden away from the transparant, adverserial system that marks American justice.

    And a seperate concurring opinion noted how Edward Snowden had done a great service to the nation, on par with Daniel Ellsburg and his Pentagon Papers leak.

    [​IMG]

    Thoughts?
     
    #1 Northside Storm, May 10, 2015
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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  3. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Interesting. Will he come back now?
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Not up to him.
     
  5. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    The dude deserves a pardon. If Nixon could get one so can Snowden.

    American citizen will boot Republicans or Democrats alike if they side to reauthorize mass domestic warrant less spying.
     
  6. jcee15

    jcee15 Contributing Member

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    How about secret courts without adversaries? Seems to be just glossed over as some sorta status quo.
    We don't need any further "rulings" than that to prove American citizens don't give a damn. They just want to live their lives as if they aren't being robbed blind. Knowledge still is power and they want all our info. Nobody ****ing cares I suppose.
     
    #6 jcee15, May 11, 2015
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  7. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    i think you have too much faith in the average american voter. unfortunately, most people not only dont care, but have been terrorized into believing the illegal spying is necessary and that snowden is a traitor.
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Snowden is both a blessing and curse as well as a traitor. The Patriot act was horrible, and the govt. spying on its citizens was IMHO unconstitutional. I'm grateful that Snowden exposed a lot of that.

    However the majority of the stuff he stole and gave over to Russia (hardly a bastion of freedom) had nothing to do with our constitution and protecting American citizens from an overreach by the U.S. govt.

    For that he is a traitor.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    LOL, no they won't.
     
  10. jcee15

    jcee15 Contributing Member

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    You are spot on. Think about how we will be able to start a rebellion when it's not just the "thugs" that are frustrated with society? Our intel will be theirs. We won't be able to fight tyranny with numbers if they know who, what, when, where, and how we're immobilizing.

    There is a resource war coming and people want to put their heads in the sand. Most are over-worked and under-paid and when the scale tips and we call for some heads we're ****ed.
     
    #10 jcee15, May 11, 2015
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  11. jcee15

    jcee15 Contributing Member

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    Stop ****ing worrying about who gave the information up and start worrying about its implications. Geez. It's foolish banter.
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I am worried about it's implications. The implications of giving information to foreign govts. about how the CIA might use a cyber attack on them is a horrible implication of what Snowden did. And that kind of information doesn't help American citizens at all, it can hurt the American citizens.

    Why don't you start worrying about the implications?

    I'm not so much worried about who did it, because we know full well who did it, and that it was traitorous. We also know and should be grateful that it exposed crimes being committed by our govt. and will hopefully make us after from further intrusions
     
  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Couldn't care less about the information given to Russia, doesn't affect me in the slightest.

    The abomination that is the Patriot Act is something that affects me and for exposing this, hopefully directly leading to it being overturned, Edward Snowden is a hero.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Then perhaps you might want to do some research if you think cyber safety and potential cyber attacks don't affect you at all.

    I hate and always have hated the Patriot Act. I am grateful to what Snowden did in exposing the problems with that I've always believed were problems with it.

    I am also concerned about cyber safety and the fact that the majority of what he stole had nothing to do with Protecting Americans rights.

    I'll approve of the good, and disapprove of the bad. They are both there.
     
  15. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "cyber safety" and "cyber attacks".

    What I do know is that thanks to Snowden revealing the funneling of information from Google's cables, the NSA's delibrate weakening of encryption standards, and hijacked Cisco routers, you have never been safer from "cybercriminals" whether they be foreign nations, criminals, or your own over-bearing government. .

    The latest version of iOS has default encryption that ensures your data is protected from all parties, even governments with a warrant. Look at your browser bar the next time you browse Facebook or Google: see the https://? at the front instead of http://? The largest web services in the world moved to HTTPS by default thanks to the revelations.

    Awareness of Tor, Tails, and a suite of anonymity solutions has never been higher.

    The NSA has been kicked out of attempts to weaken the encryption that protects your credit card information and personal identity alike.

    And there's this--

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/29/poll-nsa-surveillance-privacy-pew

    If your bad is "cyber safety" as it is commonly defined, I don't really think you have a case here.
     
    #15 Northside Storm, May 11, 2015
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  16. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I am fairly well versed on it, thanks. Sounds more like fear mongering than anything else.
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Edward Snowden is the Michael Brown of the privacy movement. He catalyzed a watershed victory but his personal failings can't seem to help but attract all the attention. Whether Snowden is a traitor or a true patriot -- or neither or both simultaneously -- doesn't really matter too much to the rest of us except in our efforts to dispense justice. The important part here is that government was running an illegal surveillance program. We have an abuse of power problem, and a problem with insufficient oversight of the top echelon of government. The government eventually did uncover the malfeasance and might actually do something about it eventually. But, this is a process that's essentially depending on whistleblowers. That's not a comfortable position for me. Where are our checks and balances? How can we get some? If Edward Snowden fell off the planet, it wouldn't matter to the public policy.
     
  18. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Why fear mongering? That part of what happened wouldn't in any way excuse the illegal spying the U.S. govt. was doing on its citizens. The fear mongering was done early one in order to pass the horrible Patriot Act.

    I think the biggest and most important outcome of this is the discovery and proof the government conduction illegal spying on American citizens. Ending that should be the top priority IMHO.

    However, by quantity, that wasn't most of what Snowden did. So it is fair to look at and form opinions about the other actions as well.
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    What is your basis for claiming he ave important info to Russia?
    I have not heard that.
     
  20. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Why don't you be specific about what you think he did, and why that should lead to me "Do some research if you think cyber safety and potential cyber attacks don't affect you at all." rather than just dismissing it as fear mongering.
     

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