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Ecuador / Venezuela Mobilizing Batallions Against Colombia

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rox_fan_here, Mar 2, 2008.

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  1. Rox_fan_here

    Rox_fan_here Member

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    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/02/chavez.colombia/index.html

    (CNN) -- Ecuador's President Rafael Correa withdrew his government's ambassador in Bogota, Colombia, and ordered troops to the country's border following a Colombian raid against leftist rebels inside Ecuador.


    Ecuadoran President Rafael Correa recalls his country's ambassador to Bogota on Sunday.

    1 of 2 In a televised address, Correa called a raid by Colombian national police and air force one day earlier a "massacre" that killed civilians.

    The strike at dawn Saturday killed two leading figures in the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a Marxist movement that has fought a guerrilla war against the country's government for some 40 years. One of the dead was FARC's second-in-command, Luis Edgar Devia Silva, known as "Raul Reyes."

    The incident has triggered a crisis among the three countries, as Venezuela President Hugo Chavez also ordered 10 battalions of troops to the Colombian border and the closure of Venezuela's embassy in Bogota.

    Chavez pledged to "support Ecuador in any circumstance," he said on his weekly talk show, "Alo Presidente," or "Hello, President."

    "We don't want war, but we will not allow the North American empire -- which is the master -- and its sub-President [Alvaro] Uribe and the Colombian oligarchy to divide, to weaken us. We will not allow it."

    The three countries are neighbors, with Colombia, a U.S. ally, squeezed between Ecuador, to the southwest, and Venezuela, to the east.

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    In the past two months, Chavez has brokered FARC's release of six hostages, who were among 750 hostages the group is estimated to be holding in the jungles of Colombia.

    Reyes, who was a member of the seven-man FARC leadership council known as the general secretariat, played a key mediation role in their release.

    Also killed was Guillermo Enrique Torres or "Julian Conrado," who was a key FARC ideologue.

    "The Colombian oligarchy says it was combat," said Chavez, whose leftist politics have been credited for his warm relations with the rebel group. "It was not combat. It was a cowardly murder, coldly prepared in its entirety. The truth is coming out."

    Chavez said Saturday that the Colombian government had violated Ecuador's sovereignty and added that, had the operation been conducted on Venezuelan soil, he would have declared war against Colombia.

    "Colombia's government recognizes -- in a happy and irresponsible attitude -- that it has violated the sovereignty of a neighbor country, and that's worrisome," he said.

    "President Uribe, think well. Don't think about doing that over here, don't think it. Because it would very serious, a military raid in Venezuelan territory would be casus belli [cause for war]. There is not any excuse."

    Also on Saturday, Correa told reporters in Quito that Uribe told him the raid occurred after a FARC column fled across the border and fired at Colombian forces, who "had to defend themselves."

    But Correa said his forces investigated Uribe's claims and discovered that the Colombian planes attacked the guerrillas as they slept in a camp 2 km ( 1.2 mi) inside Ecuador.

    "Of course Ecuadoran air space was invaded," he said.

    He said Colombian ground forces then crossed into Ecuador and retrieved Reyes' body, leaving the others.

    "We will not permit this outrage," he said. "Either President Uribe was misinformed and will have to sanction his commanders who deceived him, breaking every international bilateral proceeding by entering our territory or Uribe simply lied. In either case, the situation is extremely grave and the Ecuadoran government is disposed to go to the ultimate consequences."

    Chavez called Uribe a "liar," a "criminal" and a "gangster."

    "Colombia is a terrorist state, a subject of the biggest terrorist in the world, the United States government, and all of its imperialist apparatus," Chavez said to applause.

    Colombian Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos denied that Colombia violated Ecuadoran airspace in the operation..

    The White House said Sunday it was "monitoring the situation."


    "This is an odd reaction by Venezuela to Colombia's efforts against the FARC, a terrorist organization that continues to hold Colombians, Americans and others hostage," spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

    FARC has justified hostage-taking as a legitimate military tactic in a long-running and complex civil war that also has involved right-wing paramilitaries, government forces and drug traffickers.
     
    #1 Rox_fan_here, Mar 2, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2008
  2. Rox_fan_here

    Rox_fan_here Member

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    I was born and raised in Houston but am currently in Bogota running an international business in Ecuador, Colombia & Peru. This situation is getting more and more tense by the minute. Obviously it is incredibly concerning for my and my business (I'm a U.S. citizen with Colombian Parents) in Ecuador. Especially since many of my contracts are with government entities.

    Chavez has been looking for any excuse to rally other countries against Colombia in order to attack one of the US greatest allies in this region.

    Today the Colombian news reported that after the killing of the FARC leader, they raided information on laptops recovered from the terrorist camp and found evidence of several private meetings with Correa (Ecuador's President) and Chavez. Some of the most troublesome of these documents involved the two countries assisting the FARC with resources and training to combat and commit acts against the Colombian government.
     
    #2 Rox_fan_here, Mar 2, 2008
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Not to dismiss the international importance of this
    or diminish the impact on the lives of the people there
    but
    Is Columbia still a major supplier of Cocaine and narcotics to the USA?

    Rocket River
     
    #3 Rocket River, Mar 2, 2008
  4. Rox_fan_here

    Rox_fan_here Member

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    Yes and the US is still the #1 consumer of Cocaine & Narcotics as well.
     
    #4 Rox_fan_here, Mar 2, 2008
  5. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    So Chavez is upset that Colombia killed a terrorist leader? And Ecuador is upset that Colombia killed a terrorist that was camping/being harbored in their territory? So upset that both countries are threatening war? It makes no sense. If they're not with the terrorist, then Ecuador should be embarrassed about not being able to deal with terrorist based out of their own territory.

    Ecuador will probably get savaged in any confrontation:

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 mleahy999, Mar 2, 2008
  6. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    This is Chavez being Chavez. Like with the Juan Carlos thing, his pattern seems to be to create incidents to whip up nationalism and thus reinforce popular support. I think eventually he will probably push one of these grandstands too far, but from what I understand Uribe seems to have made a habit of just ignoring Chavez so I would guess that it won't happen this time.
     
    #6 Ottomaton, Mar 2, 2008
  7. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Uribe - privatization & liquidation puppet to not only the World Bank, but the IMF too :)
     
    #7 pippendagimp, Mar 3, 2008
  8. MoonDogg

    MoonDogg Member

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    FARC - Supplies half the world's cocaine....
     
    #8 MoonDogg, Mar 3, 2008
  9. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Let's not talk about the morality of each side. Let's talk about how things will turn out.

    I think the most likely course will be Colombia to offer official apology and compensation to Ecuador. This should be the most rational response Colombia should do.

    If Colombia doesn't do that, then there will be war. It can be a pretty evenly matched war unless US is directly involved. However, the objective of the war is pretty hard to see. Probably a punitive war and the beginning but then it can easily evolve into a full-scale war.

    I don't see war as likely however because the impact of it to disrupt the world oil market. So I think the apology and compensation scenario will play out. :cool:
     
    #9 ymc, Mar 3, 2008
  10. basso

    basso Member
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    hey glynch- how do you feel about your boy chavez now?
     
    #10 basso, Mar 3, 2008
  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    I disagree. There will be no war and there will be no apology. From Colombia's view, why should they offer compensation to Equador, if Equador was supplying and supporting and insurgent movement inside Colombia? I'm sure they think Equador should be offering Colombia an apology and compensation.

    Both sides firmly believe that they are right, so no apology will happen. Chavez has a history of making grand bellicose gestures, so the mobilization amounts to more of the same.
     
    #11 Ottomaton, Mar 3, 2008
  12. conquistador#11

    conquistador#11 Member

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    I don't understand... Why is the farc considered a terrorist organization? :confused:
    Many forget that the war is still on going, and that there was never a cease fire.
    Right wing paramilitaries have been handing out reprisals on civilians since the colombian war began. At least the Guerrilleros only hunt government officials and not populated villages. =/

    Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.
     
    #12 conquistador#11, Mar 3, 2008
  13. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Well, Venezuela has drawn her sword. If there is nothing in return, she will lose face. If you think Colombia thinks like you, then I think war is inevitable. :cool:
     
    #13 ymc, Mar 3, 2008
  14. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Can you provide evidence to support this statement? I don't think Ecuador can do that because she is a very very poor country. The most likely scenario is that Ecuador simply doesn't have the capability to round out small pockets of foreign revolutionaries. :cool:
     
    #14 ymc, Mar 3, 2008
  15. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/15/colomb10496.htm
     
    #15 Ottomaton, Mar 3, 2008
  16. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    source

    [rquoter]

    Colombia says FARC documents show Correa ties

    By Patrick Markey

    BOGOTA, March 2 (Reuters) - Colombia said on Sunday documents found in a camp in Ecuador where Colombian troops killed a top guerrilla boss showed ties between the FARC rebels and Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa, including contacts about political proposals and local military commanders.

    FARC rebel commander Raul Reyes was killed inside Ecuador in an army operation that has fueled tensions between Washington ally Colombia and neighbors Venezuela and Ecuador, where leftist leaders are fiercely opposed to U.S. proposals.

    Police Commander Gen. Oscar Naranjo said documents found in computers belonging to Reyes showed contacts between a Correa government minister, Gustavo Larrea, and the FARC commander to discuss political proposals and projects on the frontier.

    "The questions raised by these documents need concrete answers," Naranjo said. "What is the state of relations between Ecuador's government and a terrorist group like the FARC."

    But Ecuador's Interior Minister Fernando Bustamante dismissed the accusations as false and Venezuela called the announcement an attempted smear campaign against Correa, an ally of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

    "We are not going to accept such a thing," Bustamante said. "It is very easy to say something based on evidence that has not been scrutinized publicly or internationally."

    Colombian President Alvaro Uribe has often accused the FARC of using Venezuelan and Ecuadorean territory as safe havens from military attacks. His neighbors say Colombia fails to stop violent spillover from its four-decade conflict.

    Naranjo said one document revealed an offer by the Ecuadorean government to transfer police and army commanders in the area who proved hostile to the FARC.

    The raid has sparked a diplomatic crisis, with Ecuador and Venezuela sending troops to their frontiers with Colombia. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said a similar raid on his country would be a declaration of war.

    The FARC began as a socialist-inspired army in the 1960s but U.S. and EU officials say it is now engaged in cocaine trafficking. Rebels have held scores of hostages for years, including French-Colombian politician Ingrid Betancourt and three American contract workers.

    Aided by billions of dollars in U.S. funds, Uribe has driven back the FARC to remoter areas and violence and bombings associated with Latin America's oldest insurgency has dropped sharply. (Additional reporting by Alonso Soto in Quito, editing by Jackie Frank)

    [/rquoter]
     
    #16 Ottomaton, Mar 3, 2008
  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Tipjar bet?
     
    #17 Ottomaton, Mar 3, 2008
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I agree with Ottomaton. Chavez is busy attempting to garner popularity points at home. No way he's invading Colombia. I'll go a little further. What do you think the US reaction would be to an invasion of Colombia by Chavez and Ecuador?



    Impeach Bush.
     
    #18 Deckard, Mar 3, 2008
  19. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Bush would get a stiffy and Dick's man nipples would get hard
     
    #19 pippendagimp, Mar 3, 2008
  20. ymc

    ymc Member

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    I don't think there will be an invasion. Probably an incursion on the scale of what Colombia did. But of course such an incursion can provoke Colombia to respond in kind and then evolve into something big.
     
    #20 ymc, Mar 3, 2008
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