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Early 2023 Big Board/Prospect Talk

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by Sen89, Jun 17, 2022.

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  1. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

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    He's a beast
     
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  2. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    With the Mitchell trade it looks like Utah is going to do everything to give themselves the best chance at Wemby/Scoot. Same with SA. Rockets and Rockets fandom need to keep an eye on the tier 2 prospects. Luckily there appears to be several guys whose games could fit in nice on this roster around 5-10 (Whitehead, Whitmore, Thompson twins, Walker, Lively and Ware).
     
  3. RedIsen

    RedIsen Member

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    Jarace Walker Is Made Of Lions
    A versatile, skilled, two-way, physical freak; Jarace Walker was tailor made for modern NBA basketball. The NBA Draft Dude breaks down the ferocity in which the future Cougar forward attacks the game.

     
  4. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    I know we're thinking about Wemby, Scoot or maybe 1-2 other guys at this point, but Walker is perfect for the modern NBA (and naturally, us). He's going to be a defensive monster inside and out, who's also efficient/versatile on O. I'd prefer to get a PG or a 7-footer, but adding Walker to Smith/Eason would make for a crazy frontcourt lineup.

    Here's a look at my Top-60:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Some notes:
    - I did some research on top perimeter prospects (PG/SG/SF) taken in the lottery who had questionable/shaky jumpers coming in (mostly in regard to Amen/Ausar Thompson) between 2014-2019, only 3/22 actually improved their Js after entering the league (Jaylen Brown, Ja Morant, De'Aaron Fox). Brown went from shaky to very good, Ja went from mediocre to solid, and Fox went from bad to fairly solid. All three were overwhelming talents otherwise, which gave them more cushion/time to work on their Js.
    - The rest of the list is filled with guys like J.Jackson, K.Dunn, Winslow, Culver, Mudiay, Exum etc. A few of those guys were expected to be "overwhelming talents," but their feel/IQ/confidence wasn't high enough to compensate for their shooting flaws early on, like it was for Ja/Jaylen/Fox.
    - I honestly think the Thompson twins' form is more broken than most of the guys on the list. Not saying it can be fixed, but I think that simply "overlooking" their shooting woes as if it'll eventually come around would be unwise.

    - Wemby has looked great in preseason play, but the level of competition he's currently playing (and will be playing on his new team) is considerably lower than he faced last year. This has some advantages, as he can develop/display his offensive arsenal, and become confident in a featured role, but it's not going to answer any doubts about how his frame/toughness hold up inside against EuroLeague/NBA big physicality.
     
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  5. RedIsen

    RedIsen Member

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    Dang thats a slick Top 60 for this part of the season. I'm impressed lol. Seeing Scoot's ~6'10 wingspan will never not surprise me every time I see it.

    Random thought- I think Rayan Rupert, Leonard Miller, and Arthur Kaluma are a few of your 30-60 guys that'll end up going in the first, but it'll be fun to revisit the whole list once draft season in underway.

    I'm also starting to get a little skeptical/wary of the Thompsons. To their credit, the free throw shooting looks improved..it just hasn't translated to live possession shooting. I do think their feel/IQ is way better than the negative examples you listed, and they still feel like lotto picks to me.

    Jarace Walker is my guy this draft. He has All Star tools to go with a reported positive attitude, plus work ethic, and a mindset that's perfect for UH.
     
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  6. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    Thanks man, I have a much "slicker" prospect-specific format ready for my site, but still working on the site design.

    And I can definitely see Rupert, Miller and Kaluma going in the 1st. The Top-40 incoming Freshman either drop significantly from their preseason rank, stay in school, or rise into the lotto picture. Not many ranked around say, 20ish, stay in that range. I left out a bunch of Freshman, but many of them have 1st round tools.

    Agreed on Walker. The kid's gonna be a coach's/fans' favorite. The good news about the Rockets' core is that most of the projected Top-10 guys could fit in.

    - Scoot is obvious, we'd be banking on our 2 best players being the backcourt with him and Green.
    - Wemby is obvious, but would obviously make Sengun expendable, or put him in a weird spot.
    - Ware and Lively also fit as 2-way 7-footers, but would probably be better splitting PT with Sengun initially
    - Whitmore might overlap positionally with Eason and company but he's potentially a more dynamic offensive talent. Walker too, but he's the type who fills gaps in a lineup, and plays bigger than his size.
    - Whitehead overlaps with some Wings, but he fits anywhere with his IQ/polish, and could be a nice counterpoint to Green as our 3.
    - Anthony Black would be a great fit on paper with Green, as a big pass-first, defensive guy who's a triple-double threat. Amen is also an oversized PG and we'd be highlight-central with him and Green, but I can't see him running our O as well (not unlike KPJ).
    - Only Nick Smith and Keyonte would be questionable fits at this point.
     
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  7. MystikArkitect

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    Would it be possible to run a truly positionless team (think like the Raptors but on steroids) with Jalen/Walker/Tari/Jabari/Garuba. Just a bunch of infinitely switchable guys between 6-5 and 6-10 that are absolute menaces on defense? Guys like Walker, Jabari and Tari can all guard 1-5. We all saw Jabari swallow guards whole in the SL. Imagine having like...3 of those guys and one of them (Walker) can run the offense.
     
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  8. RedIsen

    RedIsen Member

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    Definitely drop the link when the site's ready. I work as a UX-UI designer so if you want feedback on design, I'd be happy to help.

    I haven't done a ton of research into Nick Smith and Keyonte George. I know they're both combo guards that are more scorer than distributor, so it makes sense to question the fit with this current Rockets team. Interested in seeing how Arkansas' lead guard duties split between Smith and Black. With Keyonte, I think he actually has a good chance to show/develop lead guard skills given Baylor's depth at SG (Flagler, Cryer, Love) and how he's a better distributor than those guys.


    I think that lineup works defensively, but lacks the perimeter ball handling to be efficient on offense. Walker does have budding vision and functional handles, but it's mostly theoretical at the NBA level until he takes another step in development at UH. From what i've seen, I think he becomes a connector level, high post, short roll decision maker. IMO he needs to take a sizeable leap to start introducing point forward, perimeter distributor comparisons.
     
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  9. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    That lineup is fun in theory, or at least for a short burst in the future, but I wouldn't throw it out there unless Green really improves as a ball-handler/playmaker. Like RedIsen said, it'd be lacking pretty severely in that department.

    But if we got a 6'7" PG like Black, who projects as a Giddey/Lonzo type, then I think you can definitely run him, Green, Eason, Jabari and Garuba (or Walker) for long stretches, and the size would be comparable.
    You're pretty on point on George/Smith, at least from the HS scouting on them I've done.

    George has the "it" factor as far as pace/smoothness/skillset goes - he reminds you a bit of Beal, Donovan Mitchell, or a young EG, but he's not the athlete Mitchell/young EG were. But he uses his strength and change of pace well to compensate for average height/explosiveness and creates shots easily on-ball, while being fine playing off as well. I'm pretty high on him as an offensive weapon but his defensive ceiling is pretty capped. Him proving he can run an O would be huge, and it'll be interesting how Baylor splits the PG duties, like you said.

    I'm a little lower on Smith, but he's also a 3-level scorer, and has the unwavering confidence to back it up. He's a little longer/bouncier, but his frame and center-of-gravity aren't as good as George's imo. He reminds me more of Jordan Poole/Tyler Herro -- an average sized scoring SG who prefers to play on-ball and can create a bit as a secondary playmaker. I expect Black to play a lot more at PG, but he has the opposite problem; he can be too unselfish at times (he's had his fair share of 6p-11r-9a-4s-2b type statlines)

    And I really appreciate that, I probably will have to run it by you...but I'll def post it here either way
     
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  10. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    This is just quite insane enough that I love it. A lot.
     
  11. i3artow i3aller

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    #51 i3artow i3aller, Oct 4, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
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  12. eman

    eman Contributing Member
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    Like his aggressiveness.
     
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  13. Rockets813

    Rockets813 Member

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    That Arkansas backcourt is going to be stacked.
     
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  14. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    As much as I still believe Scoot's a #1 caliber prospect in nearly any class and one of the best PG prospects we've seen in years, after the Tuesday game, Wembanyama has to be #1 on my board (and pretty much everyone's).

    There are definitely more concerns with him -- namely around his body type and health (Chet's Summer injury probably didn't help). He's not quite as rail-thin as Chet, but he's also in the 7'4" range, and once you go past about 7'2", health outcomes decrease pretty rapidly in the NBA. It's hard to say whether his perimeter-oriented game will help his longevity or not (compared to other giants who mostly parked in the paint, like Yao).

    Either way, his jumper looked incredible. He's always had good form, and some guys' %s don't reflect their shooting ability if they aren't allowed to shoot freely, which was apparently the case with Wemby last year. But he's clearly worked on it, and his balance looks to be better on it. Perhaps most promising was his mentality -- he clearly has the fire to be special.

    It's going to be interesting to see if the success of the Wemby/Scoot showcase makes even more top prospects skip the CBB route. I've never seen anything like that, and I've been watching prospects for a long time. There've been some great CBB matchups (with more pressure) between great prospects, but the freedom both guys got to showcase their games on Tuesday was special to watch.

    --

    Both guys would be god-sends for the Rockets. Wembanyama + Jabari and Eason would be the scariest young frontcourt in the league, while Scoot would give us the scariest young backcourt in the league with Green.

    I can't help but think about Henderson here though -- he'd give us the floor-leader we need. We might need more of an athlete/uptempo C than Sengun to run with that group though. Either way, Henderson/Green/Eason/Jabari is an incredible 1-thru-4 to start with.

    [edit] It's gonna be a helluva battle to get a Top-2 pick. I think SA has the inside track, both in terms of their thin-roster, and lotto-storyline (if you believe in the conspiracies lol).

    - We have talent but have an incredibly young roster and a rough PG situation (underrated in tanking)
    - OKC is still bad/young and doesn't have Chet; will they shut SGA down?
    - Utah probably needs to fire-sale some of their vets to be bad enough
    - Indy/Orlando are likely worst in the East, but I don't know if they'll be bad enough

    The good news is that there's a lot of talent after the Top-2, so it's not the end of the world if we don't get one. It'd be damn nice if we did though.
     
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  15. i3artow i3aller

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  16. i3artow i3aller

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  17. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    Select Jarace Walker & Adem Bona. Then just let the kids mature.
     
  18. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I wonder if the Rockets selected Ware/Lively and traded just about everything that have to get Scoot if they could get him.

    Sengun
    Bucks pick
    All Nets assets
    Christopher
    KPJ
    2027 Rockets pick

    That is probably crazy to offer and they still wouldn't take it whoever had the number 2 pick.

    Scoot
    Green
    Eason
    Jabari
    Ware/Lively

    That would maybe be the most athletic starting 5 of all time. I would probably just prefer to keep Sengun though and try to trade up for Scoot any way possible.

    Rockets 2023 pick
    Bucks pick
    All Nets assets
    KPJ
    2027 Rockets pick


    That is a haul to move up from say 10th to 2nd.
     
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  19. i3artow i3aller

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  20. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    Oh man, that'd be a pipe dream but that'd be a hell of a core. I know starting five 1st rounders all under-21/22 sounds better in theory than in reality, but that'd be crazy. We do have a lot of young talent that could be moveable by the end of the year if the right deal presents itself.
     
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