As much as the right hate Michael Moore . .. I doubt they would come to this level. This will be and interesting case - the description seems pretty vague. he looked 'Muslim-like' just does not cut it for me. Rocket River http://my.ev1.net/english/news/newsarticle.asp?articleID=44205464&subject=entertainment Dutch Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh Murdered Theo van Gogh is shown in this August 2001 filer. Van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who had made a film critical of some elements of Islamic culture has been shot dead in Amsterdam, Tuesday, Nov. 2, 2004. (AP Photos/ Willem ten Veldhuys/ Dijkstra b.v.) A Dutch filmmaker who had received death threats after releasing a movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam was slain in Amsterdam on Tuesday, police said. A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said. Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth. Van Gogh had received police protection after its release. Dutch national broadcaster NOS and other media reported that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body. NOS said witnesses described the attacker as having an "Arab appearance." A witness who lives in the neighborhood heard six shots, and saw the man concealing a gun. She said he walked away slowly, spoke to someone at the edge of the park, and then ran. "He was walking slowly, like he was trying to be cool," she said, describing him as wearing a long beard and Islamic garb. "He was either an Arabic man or someone disguised as a Muslim," she said. Another witness told Dutch Radio 1 the killer arrived by bicycle and shot Van Gogh as he got out of a car. "He fell backward on the bicycle path and just laid there. The shooter stayed next to him and waited. Waited to make sure he was dead." The slain filmmaker was the great grandson of the brother of famous Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh, who was also named Theo. In a recent radio interview, Van Gogh dismissed the threats and called the movie "the best protection I could have. It's not something I worry about." Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende called on the Dutch people to remain calm. "Nothing is known about the motive," he said in a written statement. "I want to call on everyone not to jump to far-reaching conclusions. The facts must first be carefully weighed so let's allow the investigators to do their jobs." Balkenende praised Van Gogh as a proponent of free speech who had "outspoken opinions." "It would be unacceptable if a difference of opinion led to this brutal murder," he said. Police spokesman Eric Vermeulen said the attacker fled to the nearby East Park, and was arrested after exchanging gunfire with police. Both the suspect and a policeman suffered minor injuries. "They were conscious" when taken to hospital, Vermeulen said. Van Gogh's killing immediately rekindled memories of the 2002 assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn who polarized the nation with his anti-immigration views and was shot to death days before national elections. In addition to his film, van Gogh also wrote columns about Islam that were published on his Web site, www.theovangogh.nl, and Dutch newspaper Metro. The short television film "Submission" aired on Dutch television in August, enraged the Muslim community in the Netherlands. It told the fictional story of a Muslim woman forced into a violent marriage, raped by a relative and brutally punished for adultery. The English-language film was scripted by a right-wing politician who years ago renounced the Islamic faith of her birth and now refers to herself as an "ex-Muslim." Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament, has repeatedly outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways. The place of Muslim immigrants in Dutch society has long been a contentious issue in the Netherlands, where many right-wing politicians have pushed for tougher immigration laws and say Muslims already settled in the country must make a greater effort to assimilate. Theo van Gogh, 47, has often come under criticism for his controversial movies. In December, his next movie "06-05," about the May 6, 2002 assassination of Pim Fortuyn, is scheduled to debut on the Internet.
Yep, More extremism from that supposedly peaceful religion. What do Muslims have against women's rights anyway? DD
Let's ask the one's who had previously elected a female to be head of state in the largest Muslim country in the world. That's something the U.S. still hasn't done.
Blade, Why not ask the Saudis, or the Iranians, or the Libyans, or the Sudanese or the...well you get my drift. One exception does not invalidate the rule. DD
this issue is obviously not as simple as 'muslims are so anti women' or 'muslims kill filmmakers who disagree' but on a more simple case...the election of a female isn't a single exception. i can think of at least 3-4 countries. and given the fact that most muslim countries aren't democracies (another issue) 4 countries that were/are have elected women leaders is considerable. the proper argument to using elected officials being leaders as a clear islam is great to women would be that almost all of the third world women leaders were leaders due to men. so their elections were less about the community accepting female leadership than the community actually voting for their husbands/fathers. ps: i thought sudan or libya had issues with most human rights. not specifically women. so i'd like to take those two out of your list.
I don't hate anyone, I question the ethics of religion, specifically one that spawns a ton of terrorists. If we were back in the dark ages, and the Spanish Inquisition was going on, I would have questioned it too. I am not big on religion in general, and it seems that the Muslim faith does a VERY VERY poor job of policing itself. Especially in the middle east. It seems that a lot of the Muslim countries do not have any interest in joining the civilized world and recognizing that all human life has value. A prime example is the way they treat their women. Disgraceful, if you ask me, and you did. DD
I would never defend the treatment of women in the countries you mentioned. But the one 'exception' you meant is the largest Muslim county in the world. I'm talking about the majority of the muslim population, not just the middle east. I think are circumstances where muslim populations are ahead of the U.S. in the way it views women, and of course places that are behind us in the way it views women.
i have a question, do you all knew him? i do not understand why it is this big of deal in other coountrys then Holland. When Pim Fortuyn got murdered there wasn't a thread about his death. Why is there a thread now? Because he was killed by an extremists? He was an idiot. everything he said was to provoke people. He made some of the worst dutch television ever made. I do not think he deserved to die. But i think people herein holland) are overreacting. That movie wasn't the only thing he did to piss of people. He made some verry insulting comments about islamic people. In holland people are talking about the right to say wathever you want. But some people take it very far. They insult people, jus tto get a discusion, or just to get in the news. Theo van gogh was one of those people. I think it is terrible that somebody is murdered, But that he is murdered is not worse then any oter man being murdered in the world.
Yes, it is, because he got murdered for having an opinion. Whether this opinion was right or wrong or insulting is a different question. You fail to see the issue that this is a victory for extremist intolerance. The extremists try to intimidate people from criticizing them.
Pim fortyun also got Murdered because he had an opinion. But he was murdered by a christian dutch person.And i didn't see any thread about him. I know it is peoples right to have an opinion. But you should always respect the other people who do not agree with you. Van Gogh didn't respect the islamic comunity. I do not think he should be killed because of that. Like i said i think it is terrible that he is murdered, but i think it is not good that the reason this is such a big isue is because the killer was islamic. extremists of any religion are terrible.
I did not see an article about PIM Could you please post one . . . so we can know who he is and why or how he died. . then we will decide to speak on it If I see something interesting . .I bring it here. . . I find the opinions here FASCINATING and diverse . . . . .. I want to see what people think His story was interesting and worth commentary IMO Rocket River
I'm srry but i think you misunderstood my first post, and now that i reread it i can understand why. my first post was not intended towards you. The thing i think that is stupid is the fact that the Media in america didn't write things about Pim Fortuyn(i did not agree with him on any subject) and did write something about Theo van Gogh. Sorry if i sounded angry or anything. I'm not angry with you, or any on this board. I love to see other peoples opinions. And i agree it is an interesting story and defenitly worth commetary. The thing i would like to know, why do you think this is in the american media and the murder of Pim Fortyun wasn't. Because Like i said the death of Pim Fortyun was the First political murder in holland. He could have become the Prime Minister. Van Gogh was an idiot, who did nothing of any importance beside Trying to upset people and Making bad Television(ok some did like his movies and television, i just didn't ). The thing i think is the differance is the fact that Fortuyn was killed by a Christian white man(Nature extremist) And van gogh was killed by a Islamic man.(probably Islamic Extremist). Do any of you think that had something to do with the differance in media attention. once again sorry if i gave you (Rocket River) the feeling that i was complaining about you. i was complaining about the media, and i'm really interested in al of your opinions
I agree that extremists of any religion are terrible, but Pim Fortuyn did not get murdered in the name of the religion. Van Gogh did - the murderer even made it a point to stab him and attach verses of the Koran on his body. And I also agree that you should always respect other people who do not agree with you. That is one of the core values of the Dutch society, if I am not mistaken. And exactly that is the value that was attacked with this murder.
not worries Actually I see you point I have EV1 . .. and this story was on the frontpage the other murder you point out was not . . .. . how do u make a decision that a Filmmaker was a bigger story than a politician I don't know . . . .sounds suspicious to me too Rocket River
