1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Dutch commander criticises US military in Afghanistan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Jan 20, 2006.

Tags:
Page 1 of 2
  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    Dutch commander criticises US military in Afghanistan

    http://www.expatica.com/source/site...3&name=Dutch+commander+criticises+US+military

    18 January 2006

    AMSTERDAM — The commander-in-chief of the Dutch Armed Forces has suggested the performance of the US military has had little or no effect in the southern Afghan province of Uruzgan.

    "The actions of the Americans have had little or no effect. The Taliban was dealt with - and that was very necessary - but the country is no more stable as a result," General Dick Berlijn told 'Elsevier' magazine.

    The general's remarks are surprising as he has backed calls for the Netherlands to take part in the 6,000-strong Nato-led mission to Uruzgan.

    Dutch MPs began laying the ground work on Tuesday to begin a proper debate on contributing 1,200 soldiers. Some of the parliamentarians want to access to intelligence reports on the situation in Uruzgan.

    The debate has been delayed for weeks as a result of wrangling with the government. Nato and the US have called on the Dutch to decide quickly on whether to take part in the mission.

    Berlijn warned in Elsevier that MPs should not get bogged down in the details of the operational side of the mission. "I think it is a bad idea for MPs to involve themselves in all military considerations - otherwise people in their armchairs in The Hague will read a newspaper article and will suddenly want to send extra troops or weaponry," he said.

    Discussing the 'Dutch approach' to overseas missions in conflict zones, Berlijn said: "We know you can't just roar through the streets in tanks with closed turrets."

    "Some countries", he said, "react in an unnecessarily harsh manner in conflict zones, thereby generating unnecessary resistance".

    Berlijn said Dutch troops rely on their discipline to maintain their own tempo if challenged by violence. The troops are also trained to respect local cultures. There is never a question of 'lift your burka' and searching the wearer. We have never frisked women and children in Iraq."

    Berlijn noted it was very important the reconstruction of the ISAF mission, which Nato will command, and the US-led hunt for the Taliban, Operation Enduring Freedom (OF), do not conflict each other.

    "There must not be a situation in which we work on reconstruction one day and the bulldozers of the OEF flatten everything again the next," he said.
     
    #1 wnes, Jan 20, 2006
  2. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    8,026
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    Wow a D&D thread about the dutch:D:D.

    There is a lot of negative thoughts about the war(especially iraq). And the government have to decide if we want to sent more troops to Uruzgan. There has been a lot of discussions. Two major partys want us to send troops the VVD (liberals)(in holland this party has economic liberal beliefs, and is the party for which you vote when you are very rich, it is a bit like your republicans) and the CDA (christian party). The social partys are more sceptic about going to Uruzgan. (atleast that is what they are saying now, and it can change). I think that we will send the troops. (i do have to say that i'm absolutly NOT happy with the current dutch government, which consists of the VVD and the cda, and one other small party).

    The dutch army does not have a very good record, the last war we fought and won was in 1600 or something. So if a dutch general is having comment about other armies it is pretty funny to me. However i do not know the situation in afghanistan, so i do not know it is is safer there now, or not(i think it is).
     
    #2 arno_ed, Jan 20, 2006
  3. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    The thread isn't really about Dutch, rather, it's an Dutch's view on US and Nato's mission in Afghanistan. The current mission is much more in the nature of peace keeping than combat operation. Thus, Dutch's own W/L record in wars doesn't hold much weight. It's how they performed in previous UN or Nato-led peace keeping missions that counted most. From what the Dutch's General said, he seemed to know what they were supposed to be doing.
     
    #3 wnes, Jan 20, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2006
  4. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    8,026
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    The peace keeping mission in yugoslavia wasn't one of our finest hour either. However my commment about the dutch w/l war record was mostly a joke.

    About the mission in Uruzgan. The problem is that many politicians in holland do not think that this could be a mission about building the area up again. because it is not stable enough, and they fear for the lifes dutch soldiers.

    I think that many people in holland suported the attack on afghanistan and the taliban. And i also think that many dutch would'nt mind having militaries in afghanistan. however they want them to be able to help building up the area, and they do not want them to fight the war. They feel that a mission which goal is to keep the peace, is not possible in an area that is so unstable.

    edit:
    I also have to add, that since the iraq war, the popularity of Bush as droped a lot in holland. The only problem was that the dutch government did support the iraq war :(
     
    #4 arno_ed, Jan 20, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2006
  5. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    The peace keeping troops/MPs is what's exactly needed in unstable, conflict zones. The Dutch General rightfully pointed out the danger of the heavy handedness played out by foreign military personnels in such areas, where hostility of the locals is a clear sign of mistrust and detest of foreign presence. More often than not, vicious cycle ensues. Unfornately, this has been the case in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
     
    #5 wnes, Jan 20, 2006
  6. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    8,026
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    Unfornately,I completely agree with you.
     
    #6 arno_ed, Jan 20, 2006
  7. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    Wait, the Dutch have an army? :eek:

    ;)
     
    #7 tigermission1, Jan 20, 2006
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    A liberal like wnes highlighting an article that puts down the US troops? Color me shocked! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
    #8 bigtexxx, Jan 20, 2006
  9. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    Politics in Holland is very interesting.

    From what i can see...lot's of tension....lots of extemists (possibly too loaded a word)...and a stark contrast to the watered down left-is-right-is-left-is-right politicians having more in common with eachother than with the electorate that we see in many places.

    Not sure it makes for good government....but it is entertaining.
     
    #9 bnb, Jan 20, 2006
  10. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,080
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    I think it was a big put down to the troops when you said you were too valuable as a business student who hopes to write business plans to go over and fight-- when you claim it is vital to the defense of the country. :eek:
     
    #10 glynch, Jan 20, 2006
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    That's not what I said. I was referring to the idea of comparative advantage. Educate yourself and learn what it means. K?Thx!
     
    #11 bigtexxx, Jan 20, 2006
  12. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,080
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    That is what you meant. Comparative advantage says it all. You are too valuable to go over.

    Sorry, Bigtexx, I had basic econ also.
     
    #12 glynch, Jan 20, 2006
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    I love how you try to tell me what I meant. That's rich. You must be like the Amazing Kreskin or something.
     
    #13 bigtexxx, Jan 20, 2006
  14. white lightning

    white lightning Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    742
    Since this thread is becoming derailed, let's make a note here that bigt made the first personal attack.
     
    #14 white lightning, Jan 20, 2006
  15. underoverup

    underoverup Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,208
    Likes Received:
    75
    bigtexxx's response to the dutch commander's comments: bash the liberal. that's pretty deep.
     
    #15 underoverup, Jan 20, 2006
  16. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    Well, compared to bashing the troops, I'd say it is quite deep.
     
    #16 bigtexxx, Jan 20, 2006
  17. underoverup

    underoverup Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,208
    Likes Received:
    75

    what troop bashing? are you referring to the dutch commander?
     
    #17 underoverup, Jan 20, 2006
  18. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 1999
    Messages:
    23,123
    Likes Received:
    10,158
    That damn Dutch Commander! How come he's not a flag-waving patriotic American like George and Dick?
     
    #18 rimrocker, Jan 20, 2006
  19. insane man

    insane man Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    5
    says the guy who thinks he's too good/smart to go join and fight with the troops?
     
    #19 insane man, Jan 20, 2006
  20. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,201
    Likes Received:
    15,369
    I just wanted to explain this because I think people might not remember the Dutch connection here in the U.S.

    Srebrenica was supposed to be a "safe zone" city outside the fighting and was defended by U.N. troops who were Dutch. Bosnian efugees rushed into Srebrenca thinking they'd be safe, but Radovan Karadžić sent in the Serbian Army under Ratko Mladić which set out to systematically kill every Bosnian male in Srebrenica. They ened up killing about 8,000 people.

    The Dutch peacekeepers did nothing to stop the Serbs, and there are even some reasonable indications that the Dutch knew what was happening, or at least if they didn't should have as the Serbs weren't exactly secretive.

    The reason that I belabor the point is that IMHO it seems somewhat ironic in a macabre way that a Dutch military officer is advocating a hands-off approach considering how well that worked out for them in Srebrenica.

    He may well be entirely right about the U.S. here, but the obvious connection to policy issues in Srebrenica makes me cringe before I even think about the merit of the comments on their own.
     
    #20 Ottomaton, Jan 20, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page