I am a Rudy devotee, but I believed Rudy needed to leave for this team to move to the next level. I like CD and the existing staff, but I wonder if Wilbon's article on Dumars might not be better viewed as prelude for the Rox: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23428-2004Jun7.html Dumars Is One Bad Boy Who's Done Quite Good By Michael Wilbon Tuesday, June 8, 2004; Page D01 LOS ANGELES Joe Dumars is getting a rush from this he never got from playing. Wearing a suit during this NBA Finals series thrills him more than wearing a uniform as a key member of back-to-back championship runs. Playing was great. Running the joint is better. "This is way, way more satisfying than playing," Dumars said of being the Detroit Pistons' president of basketball operations. "As a player you drove to the arena, you got taped, you scored 20 then you drove home. It was great, really. But it's not like hiring the coach, putting together the scouting staff, acquiring players. I wanted to try to construct a championship environment -- that was the goal. And it becomes a referendum on whether you can do it or not. At the end of the day, you're driving home by yourself, you have to sit there and ask yourself, 'Can I get this done or not?' " That question had been answered in the affirmative even before Detroit beat the Lakers in Game 1 on Sunday. Owner William Davidson hired Dumars four years ago Sunday, essentially to rebuild the Pistons. And Dumars has done that, putting together a club that has won 50, 50 and 54 games the last three seasons. It was a true building job. The Pistons didn't have a franchise draft pick like, say, the San Antonio Spurs did twice with David Robinson and Tim Duncan. In fact, because Pistons Coach Larry Brown doesn't much care for playing rookies, the Pistons' highest pick, No. 2 overall selection Darko Milicic, doesn't play at all. He was the only Detroit player who didn't see the court in the Game 1 victory. So Dumars had to be resourceful, even shrewd. He traded his teammate, friend, neighbor and successor as star of the Pistons, Grant Hill. But in return, Dumars got Ben Wallace, whom the Wizards and Magic had discarded. After winning 50 games, Dumars figured out Richard Hamilton was a better player to grow with than Jerry Stackhouse, and traded his team's leading scorer to Washington for Hamilton. Davidson wanted Rick Carlisle out as coach even though Carlisle had won 100 games in his first two seasons. Dumars impressed upon his owner that if the team booted Carlisle, it had better move decisively and upgrade, and suddenly Larry Brown was out of Philly and in Detroit. Dumars saw a late bloomer in Chauncey Billups, who others thought was a journeyman, and signed him as a free agent. He was thrilled to draft Tayshaun Prince, who in the kid's quiet, professional way reminds a lot of folks of a young Dumars. And to complete the team, at least for now, Dumars traded for Rasheed Wallace, the unrepentant problem child from Portland, who has come to Detroit and done nothing but play, play hurt, score, defend, push his teammates and fit in. That move reminds Dumars of the Pistons' trading Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre in the middle of the 1989 season. For those who don't remember, the Pistons went on to win the championship that year and the next. For those (like me) who thought Dumars and Brown might be taking on, in Wallace, somebody who would continue to be more trouble than he's worth, Dumars said the other day upon reflection: "I was willing to live with whatever the results were, even if it hadn't worked exactly as it has. I didn't have to sit there and ponder it for a long time. I knew it was the right thing for the team." The Pistons are a team without a franchise player, much like the one Dumars played for that included Isiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, James Edwards, Dennis Rodman and Aguirre. There's no wonder his philosophy of building doesn't start and end with stars. "If you don't have Shaq and Kobe," Dumars said, "then don't go out and just get two max (maximum salaried) guys and try to build around them because those guys still won't be Shaq and Kobe. I thought it was best to get size and depth." Of course, we should have seen this success coming. For 14 seasons, Dumars was the quintessential pro. "The good guy of the Bad Boys," is the way former teammate and current Pistons radio analyst Rick Mahorn described Dumars after Game 1. Asked whether it was fair to call Dumars "shrewd," Mahorn said: "Is it fair? Of course, it is. Always has been. He's shrewd. It's the quiet ones you always have to worry about, and he was the quiet one. Look, luck has something do with the way moves turn out, but it's making the moves that's the key thing about building anything." And Dumars doesn't just make moves to shake it up. As a player, he was organized to the point of being meticulous. He is CEO of Detroit Technologies, Inc., an automotive parts supplier in Detroit. Just after retirement, Dumars was appointed to the executive committee of the United States Tennis Association. In 1995, Davidson invited Dumars into the draft room and Dumars was fascinated. Even though he'd long been Davidson's favorite player, Dumars refused to just jump in when he retired after the 1999 season. He followed the club's general manager, Rick Sund, to simply observe and, when asked, consult. "I spent a year just trying to educate myself," he said. "I spent a year on the phone, calling people in the NBA office, talking with league attorneys, studying the salary cap. . . . [Nets President] Rod Thorn actually helped me a lot. He's been tremendously helpful to me. . . . I just had to be as prepared as I possibly could before I took the job." Dumars was a six-time all-star, and ranks in the top three of virtually all of the Pistons' major statistical categories. Yet, he might be the most modest great NBA player ever. "You've got to know who you are," Dumars said, "and I know I'm not a coach. No way am I a coach. I know how to organize and lead from this position." Asked to go back to the time when he took the job, with the Pistons struggling, Dumars said, "Those lights at The Palace were flickering." So why then, did Dumars do it? Why not just go to work for the USTA or take on something with less risk? "How do I phrase this?" Dumars said, knowing his own aversion to vanity. "I did it because I thought I could be good at it, because I didn't think it was rocket science." His team is three victories away from a championship, without the help of Thomas and Laimbeer , but with the help of people he found, hired and manages. Maybe Dumars is the new Jerry West, a player who spent a successful playing career with one organization, then returned it to prominence as an executive. "There is," Dumars said, "a great sense of accomplishment." © 2004 The Washington Post Company
Dumars is an INCREDIBLE Pro Pro player Pro manager Pro executive Inasmuch as I marvel over Joe's job in Detroit, we're not in the same boat. Point being - we DO have two franchise players. And b/c of this fact, our evoluation will be far different from Detroit. We arguably have better pieces to be competitive for a longer stretch of time than Detroit. The key is getting the chemistry right and perhaps our abundance of talent spoils us. Detroit doesn't have an abundance of talent but they found the chemistry necessary to win. They play MUCH better as a team than our Rox do. And herein is the challenge. I don't think it's within JVG's power to make a team have chemistry. The chemistry issue goes back to the top office with personnel selection. And as we all know, something just doesn't fit right with the Rox roster right now. It's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. In that sense, I think Dumars is a genious for getting Wallace, Wallace, and Billups. Each were role players in their own regard, but great in their respective "natural" positions. We need SF to "commit" himself to being a poing guard first which we saw glimpses of this year. But we also need a pure power forward in a Ben Wallace type. It doesn't matter if he scores less than 10 a game as long as he knows his position and plays it well. We lack that player(s) right now. That's why inasmuch as getting T-mac is exciting, the first priority, IMHO is getting a solid FOUR. Kenny Thomas, MoT, even Eddie Griffin would not have fit the bill. We need a REAL 4 (4/5) modelled after Oakley, Laimbeer, Wallace, or even Brand. Notice too how Detroit handles the ball exceptionally well. Again, possibly in the image of Dumars himself - looking for peoples who will GET with the system and maintain each possession. If we want to get to the next level, we will most certainly have to cut down on turnovers b/c our stingy defense and half court offense doesn't allow for many possessions when we're working down the clock. In this sense, we should defeinitley be taking a cue from Detroit. theSAGE
Valid. However, a call to 'new thinking', 'new evaluating' might well have been in order last summer, might well be in order this summer. I hope it is not in order next summer.
Who are our franchise players? SF3 is not a franchise player.. Dumars doesnt even consider Isiah Thomas a Franchise player. A great player, star of the team but not a franchise player. Yao may develop into a franchise type player but he isnt there now. So for now we have 2 really good players maybe or almost great but not franchise. this makes this interesting for our summer.. J
Just to make everyone here happy (or rather spark an old debate...). Dumars had two guys on his list of great coaches that he would have replaced Carlisle with. Larry Brown was one. The other? A certain former University of Michigan player and Rockets coach. Anyway, Dumars gets things done. He makes mistakes, but he fixes them. Draft Mateen Cleaves and he's a bust? Fine, trade him for Jon Barry and a draft pick. And so on. He knew the type of team he had to make to capture his town's attention too. Detroit needed a hardworking, zero ego team, and he provided it.
We have a couple of management problems: 1. We don't draft well. 2. We don't develop young players very well. 3. Our coaching staff isn't able to put in a system that best fits it's players.
Sam Cassel, Robert Horry, Cuttino Mobley, Steve Francis, and Yao Ming. Only one of those picks was the result of luck. You can dwell on Eddie Griffin and others, but few GMs besides the Logo have a significantly better record. Well if we're so bad at drafting, what makes you think there's anything to develop? Come on, we're not the Clippers or Bulls. Those that have the talent develop at their own pace. We hold on to them or we trade them. They don't walk away like Shaq did in Orlando. And what system is that which best supports our 3 shooting guard, two center lineup? Hindsight is 20/20. Take our team out of context and it makes no sense why things are the way they are. But if you look at our history, and the history of the NBA, it makes sense. We're a team on the rise. You compare us to the Lakers and Pistons and we look like schmucks. But try comparing mid and late 90's Rockets to the then-rebuilding Pistons and Lakers, and suddenly things reverse.
Gooden was a bomb for The Logo. Battier at #6? Way too high. NVE, Fisher, George were excellent picks. The Logo seems to do better finding gems than when he drafts high. The Logo excels with players already in the League. Better than anyone.
Here are some comments from NBADraft.net... 2002 Yao Ming 7-6 295 C Shanghai (China) 1980 Bostjan Nachbar 6-9 220 SF (Slovenia) 1980 Tito Maddox 6-4 190 PG Jr. The team went with a huge project with Yao Ming but his talent level is so high, and the economic value that he brings to a team so great, that he was a done deal for the Rockets as soon as they won the lottery. The Chinese Government was the only snag and when they cooperated it solidified the selection. The team landed a gem with their second pick Bostjan Nachbar. This kid is much better than Seattle's Radmonovic. In a few years he will be closer to a Peja type player. Not the shooter, but a better team player with defense and more athleticism. Watch out for this team! Tito Maddox, ho hum... we have to feel good about this draft. i wish we would like boki play more. 2001 Picks 13,18,23 Eddie Griffin 6-9 220 SF/PF Seton Hall Fr. Terence Morris 6-9 205 SF Maryland Sr. The Rockets traded all three of their (first round) picks to New Jersey for Eddie Griffin. The philosophy behind making this trade is a good one. One potential superstar is worth more than 3 role players. However Griffin is a big wild card because of his psychological question marks. If he can overcome his troubles he could become one of the very best players in the draft. Credit the Rockets for rolling the dice. Giving up a future first rounder for Terence Morris was probably more a move to show their commitment to Steve Francis, but giving up a first was a bad decision. we know how this turned out. both players out of the league. 2000 15. Jason Collier, C, Georgia Tech 31. Dan Langhi, SF, Vanderbilt Milwaukee future #1 Houston gained a Bucks future #1 by trading Joel Przybilla for Jason Collier. Collier doesn't have the athleticism or potential of Pryz. But he may have more passion for the game and may end up being better.Adding a future #1 makes it a good trade. A better move would have been to draft Moiso. Dan Langhi can fill it up but needs to get stronger and better defensively. we didn't develop collier (see my previous post about management problems) and langhi was horrible. 1999 22. Kenny Thomas good pick. But taken before Andre Kirilenko 1998 Our best draft in a long time. Produced Dickerson, Bryce Drew (who was not developed) and Cat. Oh... and some clown named Mirsad Turkcan So... five drafts... only 2 rotation players on our team. I call that bad drafting.
Yeah, and didn't Dumars win a NBA Finals MVP in one year? Howcome that isn't mentioned in an article that is supposed to play up Dumars' name? a "key member" in the Detroit Pistons championship team "without" a francise player? What's going on now. Despite the back-to-back championships Detroit has won, they are treated much like Houston's own back-to-back...............
Joe Dumars, the GM, will be remembered for drafting Darko instead of Carmello Anthony. After Larry Brown's brain fart at the end of the game on Tuesday, I doubt the Pistons will be able to get it done this year.
That's not true. We haven't seen Milicic yet. Aside from that, look at the Pistons roster. They don't have a single bad contract, their players are all young and all hardworking. He got Larry Brown to coach his team, and this summer, after making the NBA Finals, they will have capspace. Their 3 primary big men are Rasheed, Ben, and Okur. Once these guys start aging, even a little bit, Milicic will start taking over. In the backcourt, he has Chauncey Billups, who has so far outscored Payton 49-5 in the Finals, paired with Rip Hamilton, easily the biggest individual difference-maker in the entire playoffs. He inherited a team that Grant Hill, one of his close friends, would not accept to stay with. Look at what Grant Hill and Jerry Stackhouse are doing now. Dumars is probably the best GM in the league. There will always be doubters about Jerry West, because people ust sometimes like to go against overwhelming evidence. I won't even try to argue about Jerry West's capabilities in the front office. The Grizzlies won 50 games this year, that says enough.
Once again you have re-enforced what I've been saying ever since I joined this BBS: The Rockets problems start at the top. This is an organization with a simply awful draft/free agent history. The GM is a clueless dunderhead as is the owner. they both deserve each other - it's a pity we are stuck with the both of them. It's no wonder that the Rockets have plateaued at the mid-45 win level and are now being passed by teams with better organizations like Memphis and soon to come, Denver. Last year while the SAs, LAs, Dallas' and Minns were going out and getting good players that IMPROVED their team, CD & Co. gave you a broken down A Griffin, a waste of space Piatkowski (Ex-Clipper - bad investment) and a parade of former Knicks scooped from the end of the NY bench or out of the dumpster. I just can't wait to see what feeble moves CD will try to pass off on us for the upcoming season. That's why all of these trade threads are a complete waste of time - there's nobody running the show in Houston who is capable of executing anything that remotely resembles a good trade that will improve this team let alone have the insight to find and recognize NBA talent that can actually IMPROVE this team.
The ability of the GM sets the tone for the entire organization. The ability of the GM is the driving force behind said organization. That tells all you need to know about what's wrong with this organization.
The question remains -- should Alexander have blown the team's basketball management up and started over, or was staying the course the more prudent move? If Alex would hire someone with the talent and experience and give him and his team (pretty much) free rein to refashion the Rox, then YES. However, I have reason to believe Alex is comfortable with the basketball management status quo, and his role/interaction therein.
West's excuse for drafting Gooden was that he did not have enough time to review the prospects and went with Gooden because it was where he was thought to go. How convienient of West to say after the fact, that if he would have had enough time he would have drafted Amare. Nice excuse Jerry, I'm sure every GM with picks two through eight said the exact same thing after Amare won rookie of the year. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.... but you didn't. I don't know why West is considered by many as the best general manager.
