i'm having this argument with my friend who is a phx fan. i need to know what yall think. i think with marion and amare, phx is still a playoff team...easily. He says they're not....if thats the case than mike d'antoni cant coach worth ****........
They were barely the #8 seed when Amare was a rookie (essentially still a dunker now), and Marion was still the same tweener. Their pg was Stephon Marbury, and their coach was Frank Johnson (or was it Scott Skiles... they have a new one every 4 years). Dantoni looked like he didn't belong in the NBA when he was in Denver, and is currently coaching a team with the two-time MVP playing the most controlling position in the game (PG).
If you are talking about starting the season, then i say they get 7th or 8th spot, without Nash. Barbosa is badass too. I dont know how well they would do against the elite in the west though. I think Rox, Mavs, Spurs would kill em without Nash.
Playoff team with an 8th seed. They most likely would NOT make any noise whatsoever when playoffs actually do start since they'd probably be playing one of the Texas teams, but that's another debate. Without Nash, I believe they are still better than the Clips, Wolves, Golden State, and the rest of the Western lotto dwellers.
If they didn't have Nash the entire season, they would probably contend for the 8th seed. Without Nash, D'Antoni doesn't look like a good coach.
wow, i thought i was a "jump to conclusions" type guy. the suns are still one of the most talented teams in the league without nash but he their offense is almost entirely built around his talent. all they need is backup point who is a better passer than barbosa. barbosa's a great change of pace when nash is playing. but that being said, all the team needs is time to gel without nash because they are just so dependent on him. talent wise, they are obviously still a playoff team.
Signed, Homecourt loses to: Atlanta and Chicago Phoenix without Nash would MAYBE squeek into the playoffs.... DD
If they were playing an entire season without Nash, they would have a different system in place. They would also have months of practices without Nash. You can't look at how they operate in the short-term to compare.
Nah, I get that....but if you watch them without Nash, they are clueless out there. Small ball only works with the little general in there directing traffic. DD
That's where I question whether or not Dantoni would be as successful as their coach... their system works BECAUSE of Nash, not because Dantoni coached them into it. You take away Nash, you force them to change the system... I don't think Dantoni could do much more than he didn't do in Denver.
The Suns would find some other, no defense, passing point guard and they would be probably arouny arount the 6-8 seed.
Fair enough... but he'd still be an all-star every single year, and have a career path very similiar to Jason Kidd. Without Nash, d'Antoni is awful.
It's the other way around. Nash is great; D'Antoni is not. Take away Nash and the Suns will stumble; take away D'Antoni and (with Nash) the Suns would excel. Nash covers up D'Antoni's flaws as a coach because he is a coach on the floor. I will give D'Antoni credit for pushing his players hard. He is a good motivator, stays on them and doesn't let up. Props to him for that. But when it comes to coaching team defense and half-court offense, D'Antoni is weak. The Suns half-court offense is a complete joke when Nash doesn't play. They crumble. Maybe Nash wouldn't be an MVP candidate on another team; maybe not. But it's clear he is by far the most important member of that team, coaches included.
7th or 8th seed. One of the best young bigs in the game, Marion one of the most versatile. Nash may get them the ball, but it takes talent to get open and finish. The street runs both ways.
I think they'd manage a 7 seed at worst. They're still scoring without Nash.. Don't tell me Amare is the same player he was when he came into the league. The guy has a shot now, among other things. HE doesn't go to it a lot, but he can take it out to 15. And I think they'd start someone better suited to run the offense if Nash was down long-term
Nash creates so many open looks for everyone 1. The high pick and roll with Stoudamire makes up the majority of the points Amare actually scores. Without it, the dude would only score through putbacks and dunks because no one else on that team can get him those passes. 2. Barbosa is a helluva player but he doesn't have the ability to penetrate AND pass outside to the open guys like Nash can. Without this, guys like Marion, Bell, and Jones wouldn't be as effective. I'm not saying they wouldn't score, but everyone should know that their production would decrease over the course of the season without Nash 3. He's to Phoenix like Peyton Manning is to the Colts. Sure there might be a coach or an offensive coordinator, but when either guy is out there on the playing field/court, they are the ones that lead and dictate what the team is doing. They are the ones that will audible/change plays. So in short, I think Phoenix, with their talent, is a playoff team ...actually a playoff lock because of the talent and depth they have alone. But getting any further than say the 2nd round? Not really.
People that actually think D'Antoni's system would change without Nash only need to look to his days in Denver. He ran a very up-tempo, high scoring offense that lacked a really solid point guard there. That Nuggets team stumbled badly, as did his first team with Phoenix. D'Antoni has a record of 35-76 (.315) in the two years he coached without Nash, which shows me D'Antoni lucked out in getting a point guard that fit his system. You take Nash out of the Suns' offense and you've got a possible playoff team, but not a 50 or 60 win one. The sign of a really good coach is their ability to take a player and adjust it to his system. Look at what Utah is doing with Deron Williams running the point, a far different player than what Sloan had with Stockton.
