I keep hearing how he is saying this is a war with Islam, and it seems that he is the one driving for that very war. Why would he want something like that? Maybe he is trying to unite the Arab states under an Islamic banner, but that is suicide. The rest of the world has the majority of weapons.....if there was a true war on Islam, I don't see Islam as the winner. DD
see, i dont think he imagines it to be a true war against everyone else. He wants islam to come under one banner, and then it will be a very strong force. Yes if you combine all the other countries you would still overpower it, but split the countries up and leave all the united islamic countries together and you have another superpower, which is all osama wants imo...
I don't think there is much chance of this ever happening. Within Iraq alone they can't stop killing each other -- how will they ever organize and join enough to cross borders
For someone like Osama Bin Ladin to gain power he needs a crisis. Its the nature of any extremist that the only way they can make radical change by seizing power is for their to be a disaster. In general most people are set in their views so it takes something major to shake them out of their complancency to accept an extremist viewpoint. To accomplish that extremists are often willing to forment a crisis to get people to that point of view. This isn't to say that someone like Bin Ladin isn't a true believer and is only out for power but his belief that Islam is under attack and needs to be united under one banner, Al Qaeda's, that he is willing to undertake actions to hasten that. Even if many muslims are killed in the process that is fine because to an extremist the ends always justify the means and everyone and everything is inconsequential compared to the goal. For religious extremists who also embrace the concept of a reward in the afterlife killing people or themselves isn't even a bad thing of itself because the righteous and innocent will be rewarded in the afterlife. I recall hearing about one of the captured Jihadist manuals that said that innocents who are killed in the undertaking of a noble cause are judged and if worthy sent to paradise. So from the fanatics point of view they aren't murderers but hastening God's judgement. IMO Osama Bin Ladin wants this to be a war of the West against Islam because that will rouse Muslims to rise up from what he sees as apathy and corruption to renew Islam. Its sad that there seems to be so many who are willing to oblige him.
Osama is a shrewd political strategist. He understands that the best way to mobilize and -- most importantly and urgently -- unite the Muslim world from Morocco to Indonesia is to make sure that Muslims in those nations constantly feel besieged, belittled, provoked, and threatened. When you study the history, the one proven method to unite a nation/group of people together is by having or creating a situation where there is a real or perceived foreign threat (i.e. a common enemy), which forces people to band together, put their differences aside, and deal with that threat first and foremost. Our own leaders know and understand the value of having a common enemy that they can use to rally the public behind their policies and discourage/stifle dissent. It's the nature of the beast...
obl has legitimate grievances against the west in general and the us in particular...practically everybody agrees with the grievances as well, which has added to his popularity, because politically bankrupt arab leaders won't address these issues
Of course he does. An War on Islam validates his past statements in his point of view. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Very Subjective Sounds to me that he is just being a politicial. I think ideally he wants to be remembered as a prophet for the faith i dont think it will ever be possible for him to be a traditional leader, ie president or Caliph, but i could see this as laying the groundwork for some one else.
People who are turned away from Islam due to the actions of OBL are so pissed off at his actions that they wouldnt mind nuking/bombing the holy cities of muslims, ie makkah and Madinah. A thread on this board even suggested it if im not mistaken. If such a thing happens, then there is no doubt that all muslims will unite to stop any other such actions from occuring and punishing those who are responsible. IMO, such a rash action from any western power is what OBL and others hope for. Attacking Iraq was very small scale. Even then many nuetral muslims started disliking the actions of the west. Its kinda how all the muslim countries united when Palestine was divided. OBL isnt a stupid man by any means, he just layed out the trap, and if bush or any other bomb happy leader falls into his trap it could mean a very happy day for OBL.
If what you mean is that Bin Laden is attempting to make the West a scapegoat for the repressive policies of some of the Arab regimes, you may be correct. I would even go so far as to say that many of the frenzied masses in the Middle East have bought into his arguments. But I'm not sure what you mean by stating that he has "legitimate grievances" against the West, or that "practically everybody agrees" with these grievances. Please elaborate.
There are too many different sects of Islam to ever really unite -- just like Christianity. Can you imagine Southern Baptists, Methodists, Evangelicals, Penocostals, etc. ever uniting and fighting together?
Adeel, This is something I don't understand. If Muslims are unhappy with the way the palastinians are treated, then why are the palastinians 2nd class citizens in most arab countries? If they care so much, why can't they own land, or hold a reputable job? It makes no sense, unless it is all BS and pure political rhetoric. DD
I don't know where you're getting that from, but there is little truth to that. I lived in the Saudi and Egypt for a while and neither treated the Palestinians "badly", and in fact, the Saudis treated them very well. In Jordan, they make up around 60% of the population, and they are treated like everyone else. You might be confusing how Israelis treat their Palestinian-Arab citizens (about a third of Israel are of Arab descent) with how Arab states treat the Palestinians.
Im not negating the point about Palestinians being treated less than equal in other arab countries, while I havent seen this, it may happen, and it may happen alot. But that is very different from what they experience while living under the tyrrany and torture of israel. Any immigrant is treated like a 2nd class citizen in another country, and when you happen to go to a country that doesnt offer its immigrants citizenship, then you have a lot of partial treatment. However as tigermission said, in jordan many palestinians live there and have been successful there and in other neighbouring countries. sure there are a times when not everyone is treated equally, but if that were to happen we would have to be a perfect society.
The "Arab States" comprise what, 15% of the total Muslim population of the world? I would hardly call that unitying all Muslims.
Yes, it happens all the time. Actually, many of those sects are fighting together now in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
I was just referring to his complaints against the US military presence in the region especially in Arabia, US policies of supporting and sponsoring dictatorships in the Middle East and North Africa, and unquestioned support for Israel....these are legitimate grievances people in the region have against the US and these are the issues Bin Laden has focused on Also, I think the notion that Palestinians are treated as 2nd class citizens in the Arab world is largely a myth....people use that to deflect attention away from the crimes the Israelis committ against the Palestinians....this is why there are more refugee camps in Palestine than outside of it
Most terrorist or revolutionary groups want to overthrow the status quo and achieve a new epoch in wake of destroying the old. For Osama to get what he wants, he'll have to destroy old Islam along with defeating the west.
If Osama's plan is to unite all of the Muslims against the west, then he is a lot dumber than I thought. If every single Muslim in the world united they wouldn't stand a chance against the US, even without the use of nuclear weapons. There are a lot of Muslims in the world (the second largest group behind Christians and in front of non-religious), but they tend to control only countries that are not particularly powerful. The strongest Muslim country is Pakistan (because they have nuclear weapons). The last thing the Muslim world should want is to engage the US militarily, since Islam is growing.
