Do you think torture should be a form of punishment for murders done on purpose?

First off maximum security prison isn't a vacation. Not counting the beatings, @ss rapes and the brutality the deadening sameness and utter lack of privacy over years are probabliy just as horrible. Just imagine what it must be like to know that the rest of your life is going to be that. To me that would be worse than death.

Leaving that aside though we used to hang people, shoot them and some places still electrocute people yet crime of all sorts continue. Even in countries where criminals are dismembered or stoned to death crime still continues. Under the logic that we're not tough enough we should be seeing murders and rapes skyrocket as the death penalty becomes less cruel but we aren't. In fact in many cases we see the opposite. The death penalty isn't a deterrent. Even a cruel death penalty. What you are asking for is vengeance which isn't the purpose of the justice system. The justice system is for public safety while at the sametime protecting individual liberties. Torturing people might make you feel better but its not going reduce crime. Also given that the justice system isn't perfect what happens if an innocent person is tortured?

 

I definitely believe in the death penalty. Why should tax money be invested in keeping these guys behind bars? Everyone who is convicted of murder (beyond a reasonable doubt) should get the death penalty.

As far as punishment goes, don’t think torture should be an option. Justice is not about getting even. I agree with Sishir Chang’s post.

 

It costs more to execute people than it does to keep them in jail for life. That's largely due to appeals, but reducing them would make worse the bigger problem with the death penalty -- which is that not "everyone who is convicted of murder (beyond a reasonable doubt)" actually did the murder.

I totally understand how JBIIRockets feels -- and I'm glad to see him posting here -- but I agree with Sishir Chang's post too.

 

I think the US should have public executions like in other countries. The secrecy of executions today, don't phase any criminal. The procedure is too withdrawn from the realities of everyday life. When people see executions on their tv or in the city squre they can relate the real life consenquences to real life crime.

 

I would say yes if there were never innocent tortures or prisoners selected for their political or racial makeup.

If you're smart or unlucky enough, then you might just end up on the side of convicted evil doers or traitors...

 

I say put them to work for the rest of their lives. Hardcore manual labor would be the legit way to torture them and it would be a major deterrent to other potential criminals waiting in the wings. I'd even support abolishing the death penalty if it meant they had to slave away for their entire sentence.

 

In regards to the deterrent argument, does anyone really think that when someone is considering committing a crime, they say "well, if i only get a life sentence, i'll do it - but if it's the death penalty, no way!" or in the case of torture, "if they put me to death, that's fine - but the fact that they torture makes me not want to do anything bad!"

 

What countries are you referring to? 3rd-world countries? I believe we're the only industrialized country that uses the death penalty if I remember right. And I suspect if you look at the crime statistics, there's not a lot of evidence that the public executions in those third-world countries has any impact on crime rates.

 

All convictions are "beyond a reasonable doubt" and innocent people are convicted all of the time. So under your system, innocent people would unavoidably be tortured.

 

Caning?

honestly our whole prison system is crap

We need to totally revamp it.

I think scope of crime and level of violence should be taken into account
and we should have a teir system

TEIR I:
Murders, arm robbers, and white collar crimes that impact over 100 of people goto Here

Teir II:
Robbers, Theivers, beaters and white collar crimes that impact folx under 100

Teir I
Weedheads and nonviolent offenders that are not white collar crimes

get rid of GOOD TIME
If you want years taken off your sentence
GET A FRICKIN' DEGREE while you sitting on ya *ss



Rocket River

 

Prision is about getting Even . .it is PUNISHMENT
It should be about rehabilitation . . but it isn't

Rocket River

 

Ban guns. Thanks for playing.

BTW why exactly do you want to torture murders?

To teach them a lesson?

To deter other murders?

To get even?

To get your SM rocks off?

To locate Iraqi WMD?

 

These are just people on deathrow who have been later found innocent.

http://www.ncadp.org/fact_sheet4.html


More than 118 people have been exonerated from death row since 1972, including 21 from the state of Florida and 18 from the state of Illinois. (Death Penalty Information Center)

In the 25 years from 1973 to 1998, there were an average of 2.96 Exonerations per year. In the five years since 1998, thru 2003, that average has risen to 7.60 Exonerations. (Death Penalty Information Center)

In the U.S., as of June 2002, 108 people including 12 death row inmates, have been exonerated by use of DNA tests. (“DNA Testing and the Death Penalty.” 2002, ACLU.)

On the federal level, 3.5% of persons whom the Attorney General has attempted to execute have been innocent. In one example of state-level problems, Illinois (prior to Governor Ryan’s blanket commutation) had an error rate of at least 4.5%. (American Civil Liberties Union)


RECENT CASES OF EXONERATION:

In 1985, Kirk Bloodsworth was convicted and sentenced to death in Maryland for sexually assaulting and killing a nine year old girl. His arrest was based on an anonymous caller reporting to the police that he had seen Bloodsworth with the victim that day and the concurrence of five eyewitnesses who said they had seen Bloodsworth with the victim. AT trial, testimony was given, stating that Bloodsworth had said he had done something to affect his relationship with his wife and that he had mentioned a bloody rock (that was previously shown to him during interrogation). The only physical evidence presented was a shoe print, matching his size, left at the crime scene. Bloodsworth’s death sentence was overturned in appeals and converted to two life sentences, and in 1992 DNA testing was found to exclude Bloodsworth as the perpetrator. Bloodsworth was pardoned in 1993, and became the first death row inmate released through DNA testing, after having spent eight years on Maryland’s death row. (The Innocence Project)

Verneal Jimerson and Dennis Williams were sentenced to death in Illinois as a part of the “Ford Heights Four,” a group of men convicted of murdering a young couple and raping the woman in 1978. The state’s chief witness claimed to have been present in the house where the couple was killed, and pinpointed Jimerson, Williams, and two others as the perpetrators. The witness recanted, and the charges against Jimerson were dropped. The other three defendants, however, were placed near the scene of the crime that night (which was in the neighborhood they resided in) and were indicted anyway. After her recantation, the witness was convicted as an accomplice to perjury, and in 1985, agreed to again testify according to her original story. Jimerson was subsequently sentenced to death. It was not until David Protess and a group of students from Northwestern University researched the case that police files were uncovered, documenting tips that named other possible suspects. Through their research, biological testing, including DNA testing, was performed, wherein the four defendants were excluded as perpetrators. They were released in 1996 after Williams and Jimerson has spent 18 and 11 years, respectively, facing the death sentence. (The Innocence Project)

Frank Lee Smith was sentenced to death in Florida in 1986 for the murder and rape of an eight year old girl during an attempted burglary. His conviction was based on the eyewitness testimony of the victim’s mother, who claimed to have seen Smith through the front window of her house. Two neighbors also claimed to have seen Smith directly following the incident and their reports were used to compile a composite sketch which was used to arrest Smith. The testimony of these eyewitnesses, as well as the presentation of Smith’s criminal record, earned Smith the death sentence by a unanimous jury. Smith was granted a stay of execution in 1990 and the Florida Supreme Court ordered an evidentiary hearing in 1998, based on defense claims of new evidence. One of the eyewitnesses had changed her story, and an investigation by the defense had led to another suspect. In January of 2000, while the renewed investigation continued to take place, Smith died of cancer, still on death row. It was not until December of that year that prosecutors and the FBI obtained DNA evidence that exonerated Smith of the crime. Frank Lee Smith spent a total of 14 years on death row and died in prison for a crime he did not commit. (The Innocence Project)

In 1991, Ray Krone was arrested and subsequently convicted and sentence to death for the killing of a Phoenix, Arizona woman in the restroom of a bar. Krone, who had no prior criminal record, was arrested based on a statement by the victim’s friend that he was supposed to have helped her close the bar (where she worked) that night. Although saliva and blood were found on the victim’s body at the scene of the crime, no DNA testing was originally performed, and the only physical evidence presented at trial were the bite mark imprints left on the victim’s body that supposedly matched a Styrofoam impression made by Krone. Convicted in 1992 and sentenced to death, Krone received a new trial four years later, and was sentenced to life in prison. Finally, in 2002, DNA testing was performed on the blood and saliva present at the crime scene, and Krone was exonerated. He had spent a total of 10 years in prison, four of which were spent awaiting execution. (The Innocence Project)

 

I think there's definitely a deterrent effect at lower ranges of crimes and punishment. If you could get 1 year in jail for jaywalking, people wouldn't do it.

But I think at the point where you're willing to commit murder, one of three things is the case: 1) You expect to not get caught. 2) you're in a crazy state of mind. 3) you have accepted the possibility of death as a punishment. in the first two case, the specifics of the punishment don't matter too much, and i think in the 3rd, if you're that far in accepting punishment, i think the added torture is not a huge deal.

that said, there are probably some people it would affect. i just think the negatives (torturing innocents and such) more than makes up for that.

 

I agree with the OP.

Let's have public torture sessions for some of these criminals.

About the death penalty, it definitely works. One of my econ professors does research with it, I read some of the work. It works. Frankly, even if it didn't, so what. I'd still be in favor of the death penalty.

 

Why should it be about rehab? Why is that like some accepted truth?