Do we REALLY want to be winning these games?

Clutch,

I agree, I said this earlier, that perhaps it is best to let the young guns learn from their mistakes.

Accelerate the learning process, by not tanking on purpose, but from the losing that comes with the lack of experience.

I also said it before and will say it again. Rudy and CD have both been involved with Rocket teams in the past that seemed to lose on purpose to get either a better playoff matchup or better lottery pick.

DaDakota

 

Ummm, Clutch...have you gone mad?!!

We've all tormented the Spurs fans for tanking a few years ago to get Tim Duncan. At least back then, teams could usually depend on the lottery to get good quality NBA players.

In this day and age with kids coming out of high school and after their freshmen year, it's alot more difficult to make a quality selection. And with the Rockets history of selecting players that have 3-4 years of college experience, the number of available players dwindles even that much more.

Now I don't think they are losing on purpose and I know you don't either. I am thinking along the lines of what Dakota said....let the young guys get out there and learn the game. Let them learn what the NBA is all about. Let the get some experience.

As far as trades are concerned, I'll be suprised if the Rockets make any significant moves throughout this season, unless they can get a quality PF like Mo Taylor. Is he a free agent this summer?

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There is no offense without a good defense.

 

I feel like we need to have a legitimate shot at the title or else we need to have the worst luck of every team until lottery day. If in 10 games we have not gone atleast 6-4 our chance to sneak into the playoffs may just be gone. Anyways at this point I would not mind to see an exciting, entertaining game with lots of highlight real plays only to lose by 1 or so. Not tanking but just being a competitive loser for a season, like tonight. Instead of making it to the playoffs and going out in the first round I kind of hope for a pothetic record.

 

I hope this team never intentionally tanks but that said............


LOSE, LOSE, LOSE, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Give us Kenyon Martin. Give me another free agent forward.

 

Talent isn't as important as chemistry! We already have a lot of young talent, now it's time to season it. We need to go out and TRY to win every game. If Francis and the boys don't learn how to win in their infancy, they might never get it later.

We're going to have a good pick regardless, but tanking games is unacceptable. Bad habbits are very hard to break. Just look at the Clippers.

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WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL.

 

Paint it any color you want Clutch, but what you're insinuating is that you are "happy" to lose. As soon as that becomes a reality, then thats exactly what you are - a loser (I'm not calling you a loser personally Clutch )

Rebuilding through the lottery is exactly that - a lottery. Even the first pick overall isn't a sure bet, let alone the top five - just look at the Mavs and the Clippers. You have to fight to keep that "winning franchise" tag otherwise people will stop wanting to come here.

I like the sound of Tractor Traylor. Where's he out of again? LOL.

[This message has been edited by davo (edited December 29, 1999).]

 

Clutch et al

like the sign says.

100% Quitten Free


Ergo . . . No Quitt'n anytime soon


Rocket River
Never Say Die

 

I agree with everything Clutch just said.

 

I agree mostly with Antisonic.

This thread is basically what this season is all about. We could probably just have this one long thread, and not talk about anything else the rest of the year.

We're not plays away, or players away, we're time away. The team needs time. You have to have a better idea of how far the team can go as is before you talk about adding more new pieces. This is virtually a team full of rookies. How can you say at this point that what the team needs is more players? Does anyone think that a 9-20 record with the team we have on the court now is really that bad? Remember we started out like 2-10 with Hakeem and Barkley. I see a lot of potential with the current group of players. Of course I would select a good player if I happened to be in that position for the draft, but I'm not going to say that we have to have another lottery pick or it's over.

The lottery is the best solution, and it takes losing to get there. In fact the more losing the better.

Were we in the lottery when we got Steve Francis? Shandon Anderson? Cuttino Mobley? Kelvin Cato? That right there is our core for the next who knows how many years, and it didn't take one bit of losing to get any of them. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think more 'stars' is the solution. Imagine plugging in a young Robert Horry into our current lineup. We finished .500 that year, barely missing out on the playoffs, and came up with Horry with the last pick of the lottery. That would be my best-case scenario for this team. Play your hearts out, try to win every game, make a push for the playoffs (not likely), and add another solid piece. No losing required.

I don't want Dream to have to go through the losing/rebuilding which the Rockets now must face and would rather him go out a winner than go out a Rocket.

I'd rather Hakeem do what Hakeem wants to do. I think he'd rather finish his career in Houston regardless.

Let me put it to you this way: Lets say the Rockets are 22-50 with 10 games left in the season (I'm not saying that's what they will be -- this is a hypothetical). They are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs (for you optimists, the 9th seed is still possible). Are you hoping for:

a) A 10-game winning streak to "end on a positive note"
b) Fight hard but losing is our friend.
c) 10-game losing streak.

Ahhh, great question. I choose a of course. I'd have to seriously question anyone that would choose 'c'.

You could be guaranteed the 5th or 6th pick in the draft with more losses as opposed to say the 8th or 9th and ending on a positive note for the next season. You could be talking about the difference between Vince Carter and Tractor Traylor.

Well for one, why would I want Vince Carter when I already had Steve Francis, but that could be the subject of another thread, I suppose. As an aside, can anyone show me an example of a team with two young stars of the same age who have won a championship together, not knowing who the 'man' was on the team? I have full confidence in Rudy and co. that they will come up with a player that will help us no matter where we pick. Like I said earlier, plug in a young Robert Horry at the small forward next year on this team and see what happens. As far as the difference between Vince Carter and Robert Traylor (5 and 9), Rudy is the type of coach that's more likely to pick the next Paul Pierce (#10).

 

Why wouldn't you want Carter?

Stackhouse and Iverson
Jackson and Kidd
Sprewell and Hardaway
$haq and the other Hardaway
$haq and Kobe

It would be completely different if Francis was already the established cornerpiece to the franchise (kind of like drafting Duncan when you have the veteran Admiral).

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WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL.

 

Clutch,

I have to disagree with you on trading Hakeem. I admit that the Rockets might have been a better team on the court, but I think the organization and city would be damaged way too much.

The Rockets have a pair of championships. Allowing Hakeem to retire gracefully with the team he started on is the next big step to giving the Rockets organization some legitimacy.

That way, when Rockets fans in the future see a bigtime young center come to town their fathers and grandfathers can tell them about a guy named Hakeem. Sure, they could do it anyway if they traded him, but there's something more magical that way. Just ask Astros fans about Nolan Ryan.

More importantly though, I think keeping Hakeem means building a tradition of loyalty that is too far gone in the sports world. I admit, the signing of Matt Maloney and other moves shows that there can be too much loyalty sometimes. However, if you are willing to trade the greatest player in the history of your franchise, then you have no loyalty. If you keep him, then it shows future players that they can be rewarded with your loyalty if they work hard enough. Then, when it comes time when you need something from them (take less money to stay, take a lesser role on the team ect) then they will have a reason to show you that same loyalty.

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Rockets When? Rockets When?

 

Clutch-
I think what you may be trying to do is to see the light at the end of the tunnel. We Rocket fans, like all fans, are always looking for the best case scenario. This best case scenario has changed a couple times this year.

1. At the beginning of the year before the pippen trade we thought with a full season, that we would be contending for a Championship.

2. After the trade and acquiring Francis, we thought we would be a transitioning team that would be very dangerous in the playoffs. Perhaps a mid-seed (3-6) that could get on a role and win the title.

3. After the first few games and until the CB injury we began hoping that we would make the playoffs, and then maybe pull an upset or two. Most of us realized there were no title runs, but we could scare some people in the playoffs, and maybe even beat portland and what's his name.

4. After the CB injury until now. Doomsday. playoffs are a long shot. No chance at the title. Small Chance at the playoffs. Immediately we as fans decide the quickest way to get back to the elite is to add players, perhaps a good lottery pick?

At this point I would say just about everyone recognizes that we can't win this year, next year, or any year with our current talent. Maybe a healthy Dream will help make us a .500 team next year, but even so we need a talent upgrade for the future to contend.

I agree it's wrong to want to lose, but in the back of all of our minds I think we all have lottery picks dancing in our minds. So in my mind it works like this: As long as we don't make any trades we will keep on losing, we can hope to win as much as possible, but the bottom line is we don't have the horses....this year. I know this is pessimistic but I feel it is true. I can root and cheer all I want, but it won't matter. But long-term this bad year should be very beneficial.

 

Anyone who does not want to win might as well not even watch any Rockets game ever again! That is a joke wanting the Rockets to lose games and you need to take a long hard look at yourself as a fan if you think that because you are not a fan. I want the Rockets to win and win now! I want to make the playoffs and it is not impossible by any means. F@#k all the bull@#$t next year, Depending on the draft is is like depending on Pippen to carry a team. It wont happen.

 

Okay, I just took a long, hard look at myself. And boy, do I need a shave.

Maybe I'll start by shaving a few points . . .

 

The Freak

what!! I got plenty to talk about:

1. Hakeem's snazzy clothes
2. Why can't Hamilton keep his shorts up?
3. Did Turbo tell Vince last night to "watch this" before he did his patented no-trampoline-cartwheel-slam from Mt. Olympus
4. I need to keep schmoozing CBrownFanClub in hopes of becoming a club member
5. Who is our secret insider man "Popeye"?
6. I hear Barkley is has not enough people to listen to his gab, so he's starting to talk here
7. But seriously folks, deciphering the plays and charting the options is the funnest time I've had with a losing team in a long time.

Thank you for the new play book. The first to name me 6 new plays, wins a cookie. (For another thread.)

 

I'm with Mantronix. You try as hard as you can to win every game. That way you have respect for yourself and you grow. That said, I know the players are not tanking it. I happened to be at the Toronto game and afterwards the dejection on Cuttino's face said it all. He wants to win as do all young players. I think they have the desire (well sometimes Cato has it and loses it then has it) but I'm sure it is just as frustrating if not more so for the players, especially as young as they are. If anyone is tanking it, it is from the coaching standpoint. I hope that is not the case. Not for a draft pick or anything else. I find it distasteful with no honor. Taking the easy way out doesn't usually pan out - the Spurs got lucky and it was one in a million.

No, the Rockets have always revolved around themes of the team is a family, heart of a champion, integrity, loyalty. The only honorable thing for them to do is play and coach to win. I would be far happier to see this team fight and gel and become good with what we have, then add a piece here and there. Rudy and Carroll get us good players without the draft. What reason is there to think they won't continue doing this?

If we lose and get a high pick, that will at least be somewhat of a consolation. If we tank, I think that is pathetic, and I lose respect and call the Rockets organization hypocrites - which I would also do if they trade Hakeem. I would much rather see these guys fight and become better this year than any of us thought they would become.

You have to work for what you want. Let's not try to con a winning team. Let the Rockets organization stay a class organization.

 

The Rockets have NOT always revolved around a theme of integrity. They tanked a season when they traded Moses to the Sixers and they tanked the following season down the stretch to get into the Hakeem/Jordan coin flip. The tank job was so transparent that the league did away with the two team coin flip and started the lottery format. Too bad this upcoming draft doesn't have the talent pool that the '84 draft had.