One of the greatest blows to the Rockets organization's long term aspirations occured recently and, in the midst of all the moralizing, I told you so's, and discussions about drug abuse, the fact that Eddie Griffin's departure signalled the end of our potential to field a 3 star team at some point in the future seemed to get little notice. Now it is arguable that Eddie's play had already made that possibility seem remote, but at least there were enough glimpses to keep the idea afloat. Now we are left with a long term base of Yao Ming, Steve Francis, and the usual suspects in support, although some would argue that Mobley also deserves his name in lights. Over a year ago I asked the question in here of whether we had the cornerstones for a future perennial contender in place, and the most common response was with Steve, Yao, and Eddie we had 3 future or present stars, and that that was enough. I think it is worth revisiting the question now, in light of Eddie's departure, Steve's struggles, and Yao's not yet dominant development. We know that, with extaordinarily rare excpetions, you need at least 2 legitimate stars to be serious contenders, and given free agency and many players' choices to go where the winning is rather than make it happen where they are, those 2 have to be pretty serious stars, or you need at least one more. With that in mind, I ask you fellow Rocket fans, do we have what it takes? Are Yao and Steve the stars who will carry us to the promised land? If not, where are they taking us? To that worst of all NBA situations, the annual not quite good enough teams embodied by the Cavs, Haws etc of the 80s? Yes, we can all hope that Yao becomes so single handedly dominant that he assumes Shaq like proportions...but Shaq didn;t win until Kobe developped...and is there still hope that Steve can reach that level of play? Do we merely need to wait, and take a reasonable chance that Yao & Steve form the cornerstones of a future replete with playoff runs? Or is it time to look at whether, as annoying as the trade suggestions are, we need to re-evaluate our future? Is free agency a potential salvation, giving us the opportunity to add the needed 3rd star? Is it reasonable to suppose that we can acquire a 3rd star via trade without giving one back in return? I would like to add, PLEASE, this is not the place for trade suggestions. I am asking more from an overall perspective: Do you think that we have all the star talent we need, and merely need to give it time to bake, or will time not put in what God's left out? Do we need another star? Do we need a different type of star? What are your thoughts?
Definately Time. Too much talent can be a real bad thing. See: Portland But no doubt steve and yao need time to gel together. They have been together a whooping 1 year. Not even Shaq and Kobe pulled off a championshipt that quickly
what they need is a new attitude. The players we have are entirely capable. I guess if our current line up doesnt perform, you would hope that new players could bring that winning attitude back.
Not only more talent, but talented players who compliment each other. The Wolves game was something of an abberation. Day in, day out, this team does not seem to mesh, talent-wise. Francis is being forced into a role that does not really allow him to play to his strengths, but to his weaknesses. Cato is in a role that accents his rebounding but exposes his lack of offensive prowess, and so on. IMO, ZRB is not far off; the team needs to be reconstructed. It takes more than one or two jet engines to get a jumbo jet off the ground. Essentially, I believe that this is a .500 ball club that "may" sneak into the playoffs and get sweep. We are not on the royal road to success, changes in personel have to be made.
We need more talent but what is even more important are good team players that can overcome our weaknesses.
last year I would say we needed more time because -- EG still had a chance to improve, the guys were only together for one year, Mo just came back from injuries, Bostjan had that X - factor about him, Rice was about to retired (i.e. trade exception for a better player. But almost none of the promising things rox had last year turn into to fulfilled promises. That's why I think this team is a couple of players away. I think Mo can still be a starting pf if he can get some more of his hops back and be a little bit more of a presence on the court. I still think we need a biggerr sf, some one who can hit an open three and take it to the whole. I mentioned Stephen Jackson in the offseason and still believe he's a better fit for the Rox then JJ (though I would like to have them both) . I think until the pf and sf get a real upgrade, this team will make the playoffs but will be exploited badly matchup wise.
The problem is, I think we have enough talent but not talent that fits well-together. While trying to respect your request to stay away from trade ideas, it's unavoidable to state that: 1. A star who's game is almost entirely premised on ball-possession and taking on players on the dribble. and 2. A dominant big man doesn't work. The Kobe/Shaq thing barely, barely works. And Kobe learned, eventually (and uneasily) that he had to defer to Shaq. In addition, Shaq is better than Yao (and probably better than Yao will ever be)... and Kobe is better than Francis. If you want to keep Francis, I'd prefer a powerful, physical PF (like Amare Stoudamire) and a variety of good shooting role players. With Yao, ideally, I think you'd have a Peja-type who could take advantage of space and an efficient PG. Either way you cut it... the personnel isn't really compatible.
well the championship the last 13 years has been won by a team that had at least the 2nd most dominant player in the league (could always be most dominant depending on where you want to rank shaq/duncan the last 5 years) and going back to the 80's at least a top 3 player (if you put jordan over magic and bird back then). and usually, after that guy a guy who is at the least a top 10 player (hakeem and duncan being the exceptions to this rule). i don't feel confident yao will ever have the strength and mobility to truly dominate like a hakeem/duncan/shaq and thus won't ever be top 2. and i don't think steve has the size (even with his athleticism), or a good enough shot to overcome that, to be a top 10 player, though he's been top 15 the last few years. therefore, i think we'll have to have at least one more very good player even in addition to mobley to consider being title contenders. our sf simply can't be jim jackson or our pf postion can't be a rotating door of offense and defense. at least one of those needs to change to a position of strength, perhaps through a rashard type sweet shooting sf or like already mentioned an amare type pf, before i think we can legitimately have a shot. sacramento has been trying to break the top 2 rule through sheer volume of talent, and very well may have if not for some horrific refereeing 2 years ago or the webber injury last year, and i think we'll have to break it if we want a title. we have enough talent that when we're playing well, we can beat anyone, but our average game versus the other powers average game will still more often than not result in a win for the other team. obviously, we still need some time before ming really becomes what he's going to become (though 23 isn't that young relative to when other all-timers broke out), and in another sense time to set ourselves up for the best opportunity to do what i said above. most of the trades i see in this forum hardly ever address the forward weakness, or they trade steve to do it, and don't really augment the overall talent, they just look for a better fit. This trade exception is our ticket to getting that greater talent without losing one of the big 3 in return and i hope we take advantage of it. man i almost out-MacBethed MacBeth there.
MacBeth, what wizkid83 said... There's something wrong with our PF/SF postion. The Rockets don't have a TWEENER game. Sure, we have SF's that can shoot the 3. And we have a PF that likes to face up (and play some post: MoT). But we really don't have a PF/SF that can utilize the MID-RANGE game. For example, getting rebounds and going directly up with the ball. Or getting a rebound and pump faking then driving for a better position *lateral quickness*. Shareef Abdur-Rahim comes to mind. Or Chris Bosh. Or like francis4prez said...Rashard Lewis. Guys like that.
I agree the issue isn't so much more talent as the right mix of talent. Two stars and the right roleplayers is enough if their games complement each other. It remains to be seen if Yao and Steve can play well with each other. I think the team's role player needs have been long identified: someone to run the offense, and a defensive-minded big man to partner with Yao in the frontcourt who's not an offensive liability. But we definitely need time as well. Yao's still a young player and we've been remarkably impatient if understandably frustrated with our second-year big man. I like the core of Yao, Steve, Cat, JJ, and Mo Tay. Cato's great, but perhaps a luxury we can't afford if we want to improve. If Cato's satisfied with 20-something mpg mostly at backup center and somehow not part of a trade for a player that makes us better, I'd love to keep him too. But we're still that one appropriate big man, third guard (point), and possibly a utility forward away. The good news is that role players are much easier to attain than star players.
I feel like we are just a few spot shooter, role players away from being serious threats in the Playoffs. Just Imagine if Piatkowski and Boki heat up and hit all those outside shots.
I think the main factor is time. We still need someone at SF who can be a solid back up or starter. Another person JJ quality. Also if M. JAckson can keep it up that will be great, but time might be a negative for him. That's sad because back up pg is one thing we've needed most the past few years. Now we have a solid backup, and the rest of the team needs time. We've put together a string of semi-consistent games, including the loss to Memphis. It appears that the team is starting to gel, but still early in that process. Yao will continue to get better, and Steve will continue to learn or adapt to whatever role will help the team win. Mo Taylor will hopefully get a full season in, and perhaps we can earn some playoff experience this year. Cat seems to fitting in more this year, and certain things and things are moving in the right direction. If they can move far enough in that direction remains to be seen, but at least they are moving and because of that the team deserves time right now. Of course if a killer deal fell in our lap that doesn't mean we shouldn't take it.
We need both. I think we have a nice core (Steve, Yao), both Jacksons are a huge addition. But if the Rockets have to make a move, I would love to see a nice all around PF. MoT and Cato are both having good seasons, but they are too one dimensional. I really think the Rockets should make a hard run at Boozer this offseason. His toughness and rebounding would be a huge addition to this team, he can score as well.
Everyone says Shaq is better than Yao will ever be, but have we ever considered the defensive side of it? Right now, Yao is still adjusting, but he remains a pretty dominant defensive player. I'd say he's probably the most intimidating inside presence in the league interms of scaring players off (along with Shaq). What I'm saying is that if Yao can have significantly better defense than Shaq (I think it's very possible), then OVERALL, maybe he can be as dominant as Shaq? I don't expect him to average 29/13/4/4 like Shaq did, but wil he be good enough defensively to overshadow that? I think Yao can become almost as effective at Shaq at some point in his career. Which leaves Francis: will he get it? I don't think we need to move Francis to the 2, nor do I think we absolutely need to trade him. Francis at the PG position can work brilliantly if we avquired specific players at other positions. We need someone at the 2 or 3 that can take some of the PG duties off Francis, and put the ball in Yao's hands more. In this regard, Francis will play off the ball more and score off cuts from Yao's passes more, increasing his percentage and scoring opportunities. I think in this mold, Francis can succeed with the Rockets. But it's not always easy to mold your team exactly the way you want it, the type of player I mentioned is quite rare. In my mind the question is whether or not we can succeed with Francis and Yao being the stars (I think we can), but rather, why should we put so much effort into accomodating Francis when we can trade him and acquire a solid piece at PG along with an similar-calibre player at another position? To answer the original question, I think time can only take us so far - IMO this team's ceiling is low - and I don't think we need MORE talent either. I think we just need DIFFERENT talent, more complimentary talent.
Like Smeggy said, both. More time, sure, will help our young stars to mature. But we also need more help, especially at the forward spots. Long- and mid-range shooting has to be a priority, because this team just doesn't shoot well enough to win consistantly. And the Rockets needs somebody who can consistantly score in the low post besides Yao Ming.
