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Do Condi and Bush Have A Constitutional Right to Start Wars or Invasions?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Oct 24, 2005.

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  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    What Gives Them the (Constitutional) Right?
    Attack Syria? Invade Iran?

    By JEREMY BRECHER
    and BRENDAN SMITH

    Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on October 19, Condoleezza Rice was asked whether the Bush administration was planning military action against Syria. She answered, "I don't think the President ever takes any of his options off the table concerning anything to do with military force."

    Last time we read the U.S. Constitution, the grave decision to use military force against another country was a matter for Congress to decide -- not an "option" for a President.

    And last time we read the UN Charter, it provided that "all members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state."

    We've been here before. President Bush used trumped-up fears (like mushroom clouds over American cities) and frauds (like imaginary "yellowcake" uranium) to fool the American people into attacking Iraq. Now we and the Iraqi people are paying the price.

    With the American military bogged down in what Lt. Gen. William Odom, director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan, calls "the greatest strategic disaster in United States history," and with a majority of the American people saying the US made the wrong decision in using military force against Iraq, it may be hard to believe that the Bush administration is really contemplating further adventures.

    But regimes facing military embarrassment are notorious for expanding the theater of war--witness Nixon's expansion of the Vietnam war into Cambodia. And the same delusions that got us into Iraq--from imaginary threats of illicit weapons to dreams of welcome from cheering crowds--are being repeated about Iran and Syria.

    War with Syria is already dangerously close. A series of clashes between US and Syrian troops have killed Syrians and, according to current and former US officials, raise the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war. According to press accounts, US forces have crossed the border into Syria, sometimes by accident, sometimes deliberately. An October 1 meeting of top Bush officials in the White House considered "options," including "special operations" against Syria. Bush administration officials are already laying the groundwork for attacks with the kinds of justifications they used to ensnare the U.S. in Iraq.

    The Bush administration seems to believe that the President has the power to make war on anybody it chooses without even having to consult with Congress. Senator Chafee observed to Secretary Rice, "Under the Iraq war resolution, we restricted any military action to Iraq." Then he asked, "So would you agree that if anything were to occur on Syrian or Iranian soil, you would have to return to Congress to get that authorization?" Rice's reply? "Senator, I don't want to try and circumscribe presidential war powers. And I think you'll understand fully that the President retains those powers in the war on terrorism and in the war on Iraq."

    The provisions of the Constitution that limit the power of the President to make war are wisely designed to protect the people of our country from just the kind of dubious war that the Bush administration conducted against Iraq--and that the great majority of Americans now believe was a mistake. Similarly the restrictions on aggressive war in the UN Charter protect not only countries that might be attacked, but also the people of countries whose leaders may be tempted to conduct such attacks. Nothing could do more for American's national security today than a reinvigoration of these constraints on military adventurism.

    While we are debating how to extricate ourselves from our quagmire in Iraq, the Congress and the American people need to make one thing perfectly clear: Attack on Iran, Syria, or any other country without the explicit endorsement of the U.S. Congress and the UN is not an "option" for the President.

    As the old saying goes, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!" Congress and the American people allowed President Bush to fool us into war with Iraq. Shame on us if we allow him to do it again in Syria, Iran, or anywhere else!

    http://counterpunch.org/brecher10202005.html
     
    #1 glynch, Oct 24, 2005
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Oh Jr's already got his excuse for Syria. It's just a matter of time...

    -------------------

    Bush Calls for U.N. Action Against Syria

    By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

    WWASHINGTON - President Bush on Friday said the U.N. should deal quickly and seriously with a report implicating Syria in the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister, a killing that led to protests and withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon after nearly 30 years as overlord.

    "The report strongly suggests that the politically motivated assassination could not have taken place without Syrian involvement," Bush said.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051022...gcF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--
     
    #2 mc mark, Oct 24, 2005
  3. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I guess the neocons and their fellow travellers the cons and the conned will be up for killing some Syrians. Maybe just a little missile or bomber action for democracy since the troops are stretched as the neocons don't seem to volunteer for military duty.
     
    #3 glynch, Oct 24, 2005
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    What really concerns me is the possibility of using one of the oldest political tools in existence... a war to distract the population of your country from the problems besetting the government in power. The military government in Argentina used the Falkland Islands dispute for that very reason, an example that easily comes to mind.

    I do not think for a moment, based on the previous actions of the Bush government, that they are incapable of doing just that. Clearly, in my opinion, they are.

    I hope they don't.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
    #4 Deckard, Oct 24, 2005
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    ... not without a draft they won't.
     
    #5 No Worries, Oct 24, 2005
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I wouldn't be so sure. Such an action may bring on a draft, god help us, but I really don't think that is close to a "deal breaker" when it comes to this White House. In my opinion, they are capable of just about anything, logic be damned.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
    #6 Deckard, Oct 24, 2005
  7. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    The number of troups we can deploy is a self limiting factor is W's war making foriegn policy. We would have already *done* Iran by now if it were not for a lack of troups. The f*ckwit neocons thought that Iraq occupation would last less than a year and were seriously planning the next invasion, after they worked out the kinks in the democracy-after-invasion model.
     
    #7 No Worries, Oct 24, 2005
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    As it stands now, Bush is limited only by the decisions he makes, regardless of troop levels. If troop levels were a real concern, as well as potential problems in other places in the world, the invasion of Iraq would not have occured when and how it did. He ignored and/or replaced those who pointed out the potential problems and asked for more troops pre-invasion... why do you think he has suddenly aquired more brains now than he had then?



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
    #8 Deckard, Oct 24, 2005
  9. Bullard4Life

    Bullard4Life Member

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    If Bush tries to go ANYWHERE else he will immediately lose every Republican up for reeleciton in '06 or even '08. Going into another Iraq would be the most extreme political suicide that is reasonably imaginable.
     
    #9 Bullard4Life, Oct 24, 2005
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Karl Rove knows this. Karl Rove will be gone in a month. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
     
    #10 No Worries, Oct 24, 2005
  11. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    That never happened. The UN Charter forbids it.

    Doesn't the President have sole discretion for the first 90 days re: the War Powers Act. Meaning he can wage war for 90 days before going to Congress? I believe this interpretation was used by Reagan (Grenada), Bush Sr (Panama), and Clinton (Serbia).
     
    #11 HayesStreet, Oct 24, 2005
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Sarcasm? From Hayes??

    Heavens!



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
    #12 Deckard, Oct 24, 2005
  13. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Heavens to Murgatroy! :D
     
    #13 HayesStreet, Oct 24, 2005
  14. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate

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    We need a firm exit strategy for Iraq.

    We don't need any any more wars in the Middle East.

    We need congress to keep this president and future presidents in order according to the constitution.

    We need to remove our selves from the UN and kick them out of our country.

    We need to concentrate on making our country more self sufficient and not dependent upon foreign oil.

    We need to take care of ourselves and let the chips fall where they may without our aid (both good and bad) around the world.

    Lets take care of America and Americans.
     
    #14 VooDooPope, Oct 24, 2005
  15. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Geography Syria

    Location:
    Middle East, bordering the Mediterranean Sea, between Lebanon and Turkey

    Natural resources:
    petroleum, phosphates, chrome and manganese ores, asphalt, iron ore, rock salt, marble, gypsum, hydropower

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sy.html
     
    #15 wnes, Oct 24, 2005
  16. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    #16 wnes, Oct 24, 2005
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2005
  17. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    #17 pippendagimp, Oct 24, 2005
  18. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    #18 Saint Louis, Oct 25, 2005
  19. rhester

    rhester Member

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    Stop caring about America. Now a days that is Un-American.
     
    #19 rhester, Oct 25, 2005
  20. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    Didn't seem to be brought up when Clinton was sending our troops around the globe....
     
    #20 OddsOn, Oct 25, 2005
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