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Diversity's Stigma - U of Michigan ruling due shortly

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by El_Conquistador, May 14, 2003.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    With the Supreme Court ruling on the Unversity of Michigan admissions case due out shortly, here is a timely article on the damages that affirmative action causes. Before you start the whole "well legacy students get preferential treatment, so why shouldn't blacks," consider the following: At the University of Michigan, students get 4 points for being legacy, compared to 20 points for being black, Hispanic or Native American. Additionally, consider that what is truly at issue here is the fact that the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits race discrimination, but not discrimination on the basis of alumni affiliation. This is from today's Wall Street Journal.

    Diversity’s Stigma
    By Jason L. Riley

    A young news reporter is sacked after editors discover he’s been writing fake stories. The embarrassed publication details the deception and issues an earnest apology to readers. Then the chattering classes descend for a news cycle of navel gazing.

    If the perpetrator is Stephen Glass, the white fabulist fired five years ago from the New Republic magazine, he is just another ethically challenged youngster who made some very bad decisions in life. But if the perpetrators is Jayson Blair, the black fabulist who resigned two weeks ago from the New York Times, he is an example of affirmative action run amok.

    Somewhere in between the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1978 Supreme Court Bakke decision on university admissions, blacks forfeited the right to be judged by society as individuals. The most unfortunate consequence of racial preferences is not that they produce the occasional Jayson Blair. (Indeed, the existence of Stephen Glass would seem to make that link tentative at best). Far more troubling is that racial preferences, however well-intentioned, strip blacks of their individuality, their pride, their humanity.

    Race-based policies make black achievement a white allowance and black failure a group stigma. Which is why so many black journalists hung their heads at the revelation of Mr. Blair’s race. If the Supreme Court, which is expected to rule shortly on racial preferences at the University of Michigan, needs another reason to right a wrong it sanctioned 25 years ago, this is it.

    Liberals have done an exquisite job of misinforming the public about how affirmative action is practiced in the real world and what’s at stake in the current Supreme Court case. In university admissions, for example, they would have us believe that racial quotas are an innocuous policy of giving a slight edge to otherwise qualified blacks. This, we’re told, produced “diversity,” which supposedly brings its own unique (and conveniently unquantifiable) advantages to the learning process.

    But in practice, the affirmative action ideal runs smack into a brick wall of black demographic realities. An elite law school like Michigan typically requires a score of 165 (out of 180) on the Law School Admissions Test and a 3.5 grade point average. Last year, 4,461 law school applicants nationwide met that criteria. Just 29 of them were black. Of course, spreading 29 qualified blacks over two dozen or so elite law schools would result in some pretty paltry numbers for the color-conscious. So Michigan’s solution is to lower the entry bar for blacks.

    Michigan’s law school dean told the Washington Post that “If there were a way to enroll more underrepresented minorities without considering race, we’d do it. It’s not that we like being race-conscious.” But his comments contradict those of Lee Bollinger, Michigan’s former president, who, in defense of racial preferences, has argued that diversity is as essential to a college education as the study of Shakespeare. “For our students to better understand the diverse country and world they inhabit, they must be immersed in a campus culture that allows them to study with, argue with and become friends with students who may be different from them.”

    That sounds like someone obsessed with racial considerations, not averse to them. Note, too, that for Mr. Bollinger, who’s now head of Columbia, diversity’s benefits are a one way street. After all, he’s surely not suggesting that Howard University, a historically black institution, should be shut down, or that its students can’t really understand “King Lear” because there aren’t enough whites on campus to “argue with.”

    Liberals want blacks on elite college campuses for the same reason they want them on elite newspaper staffs. Their presence makes these institutions “look like America.” How it makes those blacks look is at best a secondary concern. But the way in which we go about color coding our institutions matters. The indignity of walking around a campus (or workplace) susceptible to the charge that you’re only there because the standards were lowered just doesn’t interest very many on the left. Instead, they push for quotas at the college level while agitating against primary education reforms – like school choice – that would obviate quotas.

    But let’s hope that the effects of preference-based racial stigmas do interest the Supreme Court, which in effect must decide if there’s a constitutional justification for holding Justice Thomas’s offspring to lower standards than Justice O’Connor’s.

    Unlike “legacy” preferences for children of alumni, affirmative action in practice is tinged with ugly inferences of genetically predisposed black inferiority. A decision to end these policies will put the educational spotlight back on grades K-12, where it belongs. But an important byproduct would be to ease the dehumanizing stigma that, among other things, forces black professionals to wince at the publicized shortcomings of a colleague who happens to be black.
     
  2. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    This article also does the same good job of misinformation as the liberals it condemns.

    First, the 20 "minority" points can also be applied to those applicants who come from lower economic backgrounds. In other words, poor whites are getting the same 20 points as minorities. Basically, the 20 points rewards "unrepresented classes" rather than just minorities.

    Second, there are also points awarded to students living in a particular part of Michigan that is predominiantly white (some peninsula that I'm assuming consists of primarily rural, less rich families). Thus, in practice, may poor whites would actually be receiving more points than poor minorities.

    Third, the biggest points that can be awarded are the "Dean's discretion." (I believe it's around 50 points, but maybe someone can find the actual numbers). I would be that these points go toward the children of rich alumni. Are these students so much more deserving of the education?

    Finally, the article implies that the 165 LSAT and 3.5 GPA is a strict requirement. However, most admissions people will tell you that the scores of admitted students vary depending on what other qualifications are brought to the table. Hell, go to USN&WR's law school rating page and you'll see that there is a range of scores among accepted students. Somehow, I doubt that all of those below the implied minimum test scores are minority.

    I'll be the first to admit that Michigan's admissions process is less than ideal, but let's not throw out an entire system (affirmative action) based on one example of poor application. If there needs to be a study, I'm all for it.
     
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    subtomic -- You are wrong.

    Here is the point system, note that the 20 point bonus for socio-economic disadvantage is *separate* from the 20 point bonus for underrepresented racial identification.
    ***************************************************
    ADMISSIONS CRITERIA
    At the University of Michigan, minority undergraduate applicants to the College of Literature, Science and the Arts receive a 20-point bonus on the basis of race out of a 150-point system, which takes into consideration other criteria, including academics. Scholarship athletes, for example, get 20 points. Race is covered in a category called "other factors." The point system includes:


    Geography
    10 points - Michigan resident
    6 points - Underrepresented Michigan county
    2 points - Underrepresented state

    Alumni
    4 points - "Legacy" (parents, step-parents)
    1 point - Other (grandparents, siblings, spouses)

    Essay
    1 point - Outstanding essay (since 1999, 3 points)

    Personal achievement
    1 point - State
    3 points - Regional
    5 points - National

    Leadership and service
    1 point - State
    3 points - Regional
    5 points - National

    Miscellaneous
    20 points - Socio-economic disadvantage
    20 points - Underrepresented racial-ethnic minority identification or education
    5 points - Men in nursing
    20 points - Scholarship athlete
    20 points - Provost's discretion
    **************************************************

    None of this is truly the issue, however. The true issue at stake here is equal protection under the Constitution. All races must be treated *equally* under the law. Emotions and social issues aside, the Univeristy of Michigan is *not* treating all races equally by giving preferential treatment to blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans. This is the bottom line.
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I have a problem with LEgacy Points. It is racially biased becuase
    40 years ago . . .my grandpa did not have the opportunity
    so as a black person I have NO SHOT at getting those 'points'
    They should be thrown out. . . if Af Action goes
    Provost Discretion should be thrown out as well . . .. it is simply unfair.

    I think If we throw out one 'preference' we should throw out most of the others too.

    Rocket River
     
  5. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    OK, I admit I was wrong but not in the sense that you claim. If I remember correctly, the points awarded to a single student under the Miscellaneous category can total up to 20 points. So if you are a minority and poor, you're still only going to get 20 points.

    The real "bottom line" is whether the Constitution demands equal treatment or equal result. If a class of people is consistently denied access to education, then one could argue that they are not receiving equal protection. This is a philosophical issue that's been debated for the entire duration of our country, so I don't think this is a case that you can close quite yet.
     
  6. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Nope, it can total up to 40.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/bush.affirmativeaction/
     
  7. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Good point.
     
  8. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    A grandparent would get you one measly point. It's only a parent who would give you 4 points. Maybe that should be dropped down to two points, but that's pretty much insignificant in comparison to 20 points! I can hardly believe that.
     
  9. Pole

    Pole Houston Rockets--Tilman Fertitta's latest mess.

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    I think this is a very fair assessment.
     
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    The point about legacy points is a much less direct linkage to racial discrimination, not to mention a much smaller point total. It is largely irrelevant to this debate and is not a counter-point to the fact that people of Asian, Russian, German, Saudi, etc backgrounds are not being afforded equal protection under the law with regard to race. If someone wants to bring a suit to the courts with regard to legacy preferential treatment, then fine. We'll debate that then. Until that happens, don't misdirect attention away from the real issue.
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I disagree. The Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination based on race, not discrimination based on legacy points. I think legacy it's a good thing. If you are a college, you want to encourage tradition and legacy is one way to do that. I understand what you are saying, but it's wrong to to bring down legacy which has nothing at all to do with affirmative action.
     
  12. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    TJ is correct that racial quotas and legacy points are separate issues, but Rocket River's point is still valid.

    I truly believe that in 2003, if you want to be successful in this country, there is nothing holding you back, therefore racial quotas are not needed.

    However, we all know that 50 years ago, young black men could not compete fairly. Legacy points reflect the segregation of our past, and should be discarded.
     
  13. PhiSlammaJamma

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    What keeps me from putting "black" on my application. How would anyone know if I'm part black or not. And what counts for being black? Maybe stupid questions but I am curious.
     
  14. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    I thought the real issue was equality. If that's the case, then shouldn't a discussion of the elimination of one set of preferences also mention the existence of other preferences? BTW, I was wrong on the admissions part.

    In my opinion, the idea of "tradition" when applied to educational admissions is wholly inconsistent with the concept of "equality." While legacy is a good thing, is it more important than equality? I don't think so and due to the history of this country, legacy will disproportionately reward upper class whites.
     
  15. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    Okay, so if legacy is removed, then all of you would agree that removing admission based on race and/or income would be okay? Sounds good to me. I doubt the white middle/upper class son or daughter of a Michigan alumnist would mind much either. He or she just gained up to 36 points on several poor minority applicants.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    The issue really isn't equality across all areas. It's about racial preferences. There are still other preferences, including geography, athletic ability, and of course grades.

    Also, who says legacy reflects a world of 50 years ago? There have been plenty of minorities who have gone to college in recent decades, and their kids will be helped by the legacy system.

    And how come Asians aren't given preferential treatment?
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    but that's not the issue the court is dealing with....i think that's what TJ is trying to say. the challenge to affirmative action has been brought on grounds of equal protection...does it DIRECTLY prefer one race over another. it's really hard to argue it doesn't.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You should go back to being a pretend economist; your work as a pretend 14th amendment scholar is not up to par.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    now normally i play BBS police (i'm not actually a bbs policeman, i just play one on tv) and scold TJ for a comment like this. what have you added substantively to this discussion? this is just a swipe at someone personally....how about some argument to refute his...because this is nothing more than a personal attack. nice contribution.
     
  20. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    ...or, all students are held to the same standards.

    I learned a long time ago that people will always perform better under the pressure of high expectations.

    When we tell a young man or woman that they don't have to work as hard to achieve equal status with their peers, or that they need our help to succeed, or that their skin color is how we define them as people, then why should we be surprised if they underachieve?
     

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