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Disdain for Bush Simmers in Democratic Strongholds

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MadMax, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    No need to spend all this time getting interviews with the heavyweights of the Democrats...just check in at this BBS with some consistency! :)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/04/p...00&en=901d8e2cbf07ebc4&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
    Disdain for Bush Simmers in Democratic Strongholds
    By ROBIN TONER

    ES MOINES, July 31 — While Democratic leaders in Washington debate strategy and demographics for the 2004 election — the wisdom of campaigning from the left, right or center — something far more visceral is at work in the first caucus state, and in other Democratic redoubts.

    There is a powerful disdain for the Bush administration, stoked by the aftermath of the war in Iraq and the continuing lag in the economy. There is also a conviction that President Bush is eminently beatable and a hunger to hear their party's leaders and candidates make the case against him — straight up, from the heart rather than the polling data.

    It is not simply a lurch to the left, many Democrats say; it could, in fact, lead caucus voters to more centrist candidates, if they seem most likely to defeat Mr. Bush in the general election.

    Tom Rusk, a state welfare worker who turned out this week to see Senator John Kerry in Fort Dodge, Iowa, describes himself as "pretty liberal." He says he likes what he hears from former Gov. Howard Dean of Vermont and from Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio, but he worries that both candidates could be "Dukakisized" in the general election.

    What Mr. Rusk is looking for, he said, alluding to the infamous image that doomed that past Democratic nominee, is "someone who will look impressive enough at the helm of an M-1 tank."

    Gordon Fischer, chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party, said this week that he saw "an incredible amount of antipathy toward the Bush administration" in the party, much more than the Democratic hostility toward the first President Bush.

    Geoff Garin, a pollster who is working for Senator Bob Graham of Florida, who is seeking the Democratic nomination, said the Democratic anger toward Mr. Bush was "as strong as anything I've experienced in 25 years now of polling," and perhaps comes closest to the way many Democrats felt about President Richard M. Nixon.

    Some compare it to the hostility conservatives long harbored toward President Bill Clinton. For the past two and a half years, after all, a fairly consistent 38 percent of respondents in The New York Times/CBS News Poll have said that Mr. Bush was not legitimately elected president.

    But Mr. Fischer and others say this animosity is not entirely personal, more about the agenda than the man.

    Stan Greenberg, a longtime Democratic pollster, argues, "It's more about how conservative this administration is, how it's taken the country in this direction without a mandate, and a frustration with Democratic leaders for not articulating it."

    That frustration was apparent during the war with Iraq, and obviously helped fuel the rise of Dr. Dean, one of the few national Democrats speaking flatly and without apology against the war. But the anger is broader now, on issues of civil liberties, health care, Social Security and domestic security, and the candidates are increasingly responding to it, Democratic strategists say.

    One way to measure it is by what generates applause on the campaign trail these days. On a recent steamy night in Fort Dodge, more than 100 Democrats crowded a local state representative's home to cheer on Mr. Kerry of Massachusetts, who made a scathing case against the Bush record.

    They burst into applause when Mr. Kerry described Mr. Bush's tax cuts and soaring deficits as "stealing from America's children to give a tax cut to the wealthiest people in America." They grimly nodded when he denounced the quality of intelligence used to justify the war against Iraq. They burst into applause again when he described Mr. Bush's management of the economy as "the worst record on jobs since the Great Depression," and added that the only jobs Mr. Bush had created were the nine candidacies for the Democratic presidential nomination.

    It was the reddest of meat for this issue-oriented crowd, and Iowa Democrats came back for more in their questions. Can Mr. Kerry take a punch, and "give as good as he gets?" one Democrat asked. Mr. Kerry replied, "I'm in a fighting mood," a theme he referred to again and again.

    Lois Dencklau, retired from the accounting business, watched Mr. Kerry with an appraising eye. She, too, said she was looking "for someone who can beat Bush" and thought Mr. Kerry was that person. She had her own indictment of the Bush administration, and a conviction that the country was moving her way.

    "People are going to wake up and see what's happening," she said. "People are losing their jobs, the economy's really bad."

    The next day, at the union hall of the Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 33, another crowd turned out to hear Dr. Dean take on the Bush administration. Sandy Opstvedt, an electrical worker and president of the Iowa State Conference of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, was in the audience. She said of Mr. Bush: "I've never felt comfortable with him. He almost seems to have a mission to attack working people."

    When Dr. Dean entered the room, sleeves rolled up, looking as if he was ready to fight, he was greeted like a rock star. "It's time we stood up to this president and stopped being intimidated by the Rush Limbaughs on the radio," he said. "We can do better than that."

    His speech was laced with scorn for "too many people in Washington" who are "too afraid to lose" to stand up for Democratic values. By the time Dr. Dean closed with his trademark line — "You have the power to take this country back" — Don Chamberlain, a retired steamfitter, seemed well satisfied. "It's time somebody stood up for the Democrats," Mr. Chamberlain said.

    When asked if Mr. Bush could be beaten, Mr. Chamberlain replied with the edge of moral clarity, "Absolutely."

    There was no abstract battle for the soul of the Democratic Party here, just an abiding anger at what Mr. Bush has done, and a conviction that a majority of Americans will eventually share it.

    Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said, "It's George Bush who will serve as the biggest unifying force for our party."
     
  2. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    It's about time the Democrats started attacking and quit being Dubya's doormats.
     
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Well, Duuuuuuuh.
     
  4. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Preach it, my brotha. Preach on.

    And I say that in all seriousness. We need to make sure that whoever we get up there has a spine, and the candidates have, thus far, not taken the initiative. Howard Dean is the most vociferous but he can't win. Lieberman is Republican Lite.

    Somebody needs to inject Kerry with some fire. Or somebody go slap Wesley Clark into running. Somebody. ANYBODY. HELP! Our country has been taken over by God and the gun.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Hey for similar reasons I could go for Kerry despite his pussyfooting around and speaking out of both sides of his mouth on Bush's war.

    However, just because Kerry is a genuine Audi Murphy war hero, who earned his commendations in infantry battle does not mean that the Republicans won't attack him for being soft on defense.
     
  6. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Let them try and let Kerry remind America how they pulled the same disgusting crap with Max Cleland, calling him soft on defense and upatriotic after he lost three limbs in Nam. Kerry's got the fire right now. Don't worry about that. He is spoiling for a fight.

    And Dean's not unelectable either. That's the same kind of silly conventional (anti-)wisdom the Dems held about Reagan being unelectable. Kerry, Dean and probably Edwards and Gephardt would each constitute a strong challenge to the divider-not-uniter, radical right wing boy prezidunt with the facist AG (note to giddy: if you're sick of hearing how the AG's a facist, how do you think we feel on the other side? We're sick of him BEING one). So would Clark, Biden, Hillary, Gore. This will be fun.

    And I can't freaking wait.
     
  7. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    Hmm, if Clark was in it, I'd quit school and volunteer for his campaign full time.

    As it stands, I don't know who to go for. Dean is making the most noise, I like Kerry, and I also like Edwards. I already know I have a lot of reading on these guys to do before the primaries. I just hope I've made a choice by then.
     
  8. glynch

    glynch Member

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    deleted
     
    #8 glynch, Aug 4, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2003
  9. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Why? It was a funny post. Did someone object to it? And, if so, on what grounds? I tried to think of something to add (since you asked), but in these cases truth is way stranger (and scarier) than fiction.
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Batman, I guess it was the end of a long day at work. As I turned the computer off to go home, it suddenly felt too sarcastic. How would you stage it?

    Noone objected to it.

    I'll try to replay it then.

    Batman, you're in the theater. How would you stage the GOP 2004 Presidential Convention? in NYC. Don't hold back as you know they have no shame.

    1) Call a Code Purple or whatever is the scariest. Refer constantly to it. Maybe have shots of helicopters and Jets buzzing over it frequently. Keep implying that Dubya (Big Brother) will protect us.

    2) Do the 911 Ground Zero visit. Hell, maybe start off every day with a visit. Be sure to have a few NYC firefighters in full uniform there to shake hands and congratulate Dubya. (You'll only get a few of them since most are Union Proud and tend to know what side their bread is buttered on). Have Dubya wear their helmet for a good while.

    3) Have lots of yellow ribbons all over the stage. Lead the convention in a prayer that the troops return safe. Don't mention about any trops who happen to be killed during the proceeds of the convention.

    4) Always and I mean always be sure to have one at least of the four blaks or three Hispanics at the Convention in all photo shots. Speak out against quotas or do something to solidiy the base in Alabama and the rest of the Confederacy and other core groupings.

    5) Have some uniformed soldiers preferably with bandages on praising Bush for standing up for the country. Don't mention those Gulf War II vets who will be several miles away protesting that they fought the good fight for a lie. They won't be allowed any closer due to Code Purple.

    6) Have some Iraqis in native head gear speak and tearfully thank Dubya for instilling demoracy in the country at last. (do you think the head gear might alienate certain elements of the GOP base?) Don't mention that Paul Bremer is still running the country and Halliburton is still making a killing.
     
    #10 glynch, Aug 4, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2003
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Who the heck is Bush Simmers???
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    You do know that the repubs are going to lay the corner stone for the new buildings that are going to be built at ground zero in a ceremony during the convention right?
     
  13. glynch

    glynch Member

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    You do know that the repubs are going to lay the corner stone for the new buildings that are going to be built at ground zero in a ceremony during the convention right?

    No.

    It is disguisting that they exploit that tragedy for partisan ends.
     
    #13 glynch, Aug 5, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2003
  14. Dirt

    Dirt Member

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    .......and we just KNOW that the Democrats,when given the chance,would'nt "stoop" to such levels,as they're all that's good and right in American politics these days.
     
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    I do believe that she's an up-and-coming p*rn star, if you will.
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    off topic...

    [​IMG]


    :D
     
  17. Legendary21

    Legendary21 Member

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    I read a little about Dean. From the article I read he seemed almost half ok. That´s the best I´ve heard of any partisan politician in the states.
     
  18. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Union leaders and old people want a democrat president? :eek: Somebody call Wolfowitz.
     
  19. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I know that given the chance, the Dems probably would try it, but the Reps need to watch out for the backlash they will create by exploiting the deaths of 3000 Americans for partisan politics. It is excreble that the Reps are going to do it, and it would be just as excreble if it were the Dems.
     

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