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Discussion: wanting Green because of KPJ

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JW86, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    I’ve seen many people arguing for Green based on the pairing with KPJ as if some ultimate duo, which partially seems to be for nostalgic reasons as it’s reminiscent of Cat & Francis. Both high volume scorers and a young PG w/ potential attitude / off the court issues.

    While I get that excitement of a young back court growing together, especially since they seem to like the idea themselves, let’s not forget KPJ’s history and how the consensus has always been to draft the best player available rather than fit.

    So I would like to know:

    1. If you prefer Green over Mobley, does the fit and idea of a young backcourt growing together play a role? If so to what degree?

    2. Regardless of your preference, do you see the pairing as a great fit?

    3. What you make of the argument in general, to choose Green based on fit and nostalgia?

    Just to be honest, I like Green the best and actually think if KPJ doesn’t pan out, we still have a star guard. In any case Green will be our #1 guy and I don’t think KPJ will take that very well.

    Francis and Mobley worked out because Cat was willing to take a back seat. I don’t see that happening here. I actually initially wanted Mobley because I love the idea of Twin Towers and thought he might be Cat’s son, so I get it.

    If I worried about fit I’d actually choose Mobley since I don’t see KPJ and Green as this great back court duo. And still I prefer Green, even with potential issues on the court and off the court (ego).

    Please discuss :)
     
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  2. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Honestly, I never thought about the Cat/Francis nostalgia until it was recently brought up. I just preferred Green over Mobley because how how I look at basketball philosophically, where shot creation is the most important skill. I don't know if KPJ will pan out. I hope he does.

    I do like the idea of two multi-skilled 6'6" wings in the backcourt that can grow together.
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I'm curious, what about Green's game makes you think he'll ever be superior to KPJ?
     
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  4. hajkov

    hajkov Consummate Member

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    Im fine with either Green or Mobley

    Green for a great backcourt duo and scoring spark
    Mobley for the twin towers and defensive boost

    Nostalgia has nothing to do with it IMO. It is just two different strategies of basketball.
     
    #4 hajkov, Jul 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Comparing Mobley vs. Mobley is confusing.
     
  6. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    Green and KPJ would be very explosive. They could score 50 a night. They'll give up 60, but they definitely could score 50.

    I like Jalen Green a lot. I have been trying to think of creative ways to get the 3rd pick, as unlikely as that is. I don't LOVE the Green and KPJ fit as much as others (I would rather have Green over KPJ but that's tough).

    For starters, KPJ is not a great shooter. He shot poorly from three last year, even worse than his rookie year, which wasn't overly impressive. Now, he did get better as the year went along and he's only 20/21, so lots of reasons for optimism.

    Secondly, KPJ is really a hybrid guard. He's not a true point. Not that it needs to be a requirement, but the Rockets would commit here to him being the ball-dominant playmaker.

    Lastly, he's a negative defensively right now. He's got good size and athleticism, like Green, but he's not shutting anyone down.

    It could be a fun experiment... If they draft Green, the Rockets have a couple years to see how it works with KPJ and Green before having to commit to KPJ. They are both very good prospects... I'm not convinced it's going to work without real progress from one of them as a leader of the offense.
     
  7. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

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    One or the other would have to thrive off ball here for it to be a successful backcourt.

    And I believe it would have to be green because it seems like KPJ has been given the keys to a certain degree.

    By the way hope we draft Mobley.
     
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  8. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Nostalgia? No. Cmon. Injecting that into the debate just adds another layer of pettiness. Francis and Mobley did not work IMO due to the era of basketball they were playing in and their own pre conceived notions of where they ranked in the NBA totem of 'stars' - neither one of them with a discussed work ethic of a Jalen Green which I can only hope rubs off on every other player on the Houston Rockets.

    Having a backcourt of uber athletic 6'6 guards sets you up in todays NBA perfectly. People who dont value 'fit' and instead subscribe to 'BPA' will almost always find their team in a revolving door due to the unknowns of the draft pool in general and which players will boom or bust. Having a plan in place and committing to certain players affords continuity and team building not just throwing young 'stud's into the lineup each year until something sticks - How has that worked for SacTown? Minny? Bulls?

    Getting hung up trying to compare Mobley and Francis to a possible KPJ/Green backcourt is not comparing apples to apples and makes me wonder if the OP would also equate a Pro Mobley contingent of fans that want him drafted as wanting the "good old days" back again with Dream and Ralph reinvented into Mobley and Wood?

    Mobley who some question his dedication to the sport, his on court effort and ultimately the HOPE that someday he will become a plus offensive player, but in the meanwhile help one of the worst offensive teams become better at .... defense? Okay I guess.

    So is everyone waiting on KPJ to start smoking crack now? SMH.
     
  9. jnuge90

    jnuge90 Member

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    I will do my best to explain my thoughts below:

    Jalen Green does seem like he might be more of an off court risk in terms of distractions (similar to Harden).
    Whether it be dating celebrities, chasing other avenues of fame, etc.
    JG seems like the type of star that will have his off-court actions under a microscope (Harden/KPJ).
    My biggest worry comes with KPJ and the type of influence these two might have on each other off of the court.
    HOWEVER....
    If JG were to fall under scrutiny for his off-court actions, or if there is a specific instance where he causes a problem (KPJ in CLE),
    I know that Jalen Green is the type of guy that will use his anger and frustration to find solace in the game of basketball.
    His passion for the game will always help him in tough times, and I can see him being similar to Harden in respect to improving/redefining his game.
    So, while I can see him having a few off court bumps along the road, I think the scrutiny will only fuel him to be a better player and develop the maturity to become a winner.

    I'm not as worried about Mobley in terms of off-court issues. He seems to be a good kid with good morals.
    My concern is if he does happen to run into problems (whether on court or off), I'm not sure that he would find that same comfort in the game as JG.
    Mobley seems more casual about the game and might find more solace in playing chess or have another hobby.

    Obviously this is all speculation, but I have watched more than just highlights on YouTube. I have watched any/all videos I can with these two and have a really solid understanding of their personalities at this point.

    To me JG and KPJ can work. But JG's love of the game and will to win must be/become more influential than KPJ's off court antics in regards to their relationship.

    We need somebody who's competitiveness will rub off on other players (like CP3).

    Green can be that guy. I don't see it in Mobley.
     
  10. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Yes those are the exact reasons I don’t like the fit. It’s exactly like Francis and Mobley, a PG who’s not a true PG, but a high volume scorer with little defense paired with a better scorer who should get more shots (and won’t is my fear). Green might try to dominate himself if Wall starts, but I just see too many warning signs with KPJ for the future. I rather have Green over him too and then try to get a traditional PG to pair with him.

    Green is good enough to be the #1 guy in my opinion so if KPJ acts up, it will be hopefully a simple choice and just let KPJ go or trade him. We have years to see if it can work as you said though hope we find out soon if KPJ is willing to defer. Might take a while if Tilman is hellbent on ‘contending’, keep Gordon and let him start alongside Wall.

    The experiment really depends on Tilman and Stone since bringing both off the bench as a backcourt while great would not be ideal and might already ruffle some feathers and cause ego problems. Let’s wait and see.
     
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  11. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    I actually differ with Clutch and think KPJ is a "true PG" in hiding. His tempo control at his young age is by far his most interesting talent, that and his ballhandling.

    He is not a bulk scorer. He is a tempo control, 6-5 Brandon Jennings with underrated floor intelligence. He needs grooming, but he is a pure PG, IMO.

    A hyper-efficient scoring SG next to him is exactly what he needs to succeed. I love Jalen Green's ability to catch and shoot, and cut off the ball.
     
  12. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I presume kpj shot worse because he was doing less catch and shoot and more creating for others while taking shots off the dribble.

    Also what guards that score at a decent amount as these two would potentially as you said are plus defenders at their ages?

    I almost wish the Rockets could draft Green and Suggs somehow. Have KPJ run the second unit like Ginobli. Starting when one of the other guys is resting/hurt. Then draft Pf/C’s galore the next two drafts.

    Green/Suggs backcourt would be Francis/Mobley on designer top tier steroids in my opinion.
     
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  13. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    I think the current NBA is pretty much guards, forward, center. KPJ is a very good passer and has great court sense (PG attributes). He also has an ability to score a lot at 3 levels. The current NBA just doesn’t translate into the set role definitions from past decades. Luka is a PG for Dallas. I see no problem pairing KPJ and Green in the same back court, although I’m more of a Mobley guy if Cade is unavailable.
     
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  14. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Efficient shooting and stable mindset.
     
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  15. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Not sure if you got my post, but you seem to be exaggerating for effect so it’s okay. As I stated, there seems to be a clear nostalgic factor involved with pairing KPJ and Green. If you haven’t seen this, see for yourself on Twitter and in the GARM.
     
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  16. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    With both KPJ and Green being young, I think there is time for them to develop defensively. They both have great size and athleticism. They are not finished products, so I wouldn't just assume they hit their limit defensively.

    Also, the Rockets don't have to "complete" their team this year. They will have MULTIPLE lotteries to go through.

    Rockets could just as easily be in a position to draft Banchero next draft to help in the front court.

     
  17. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    More or less this :)
    Hunger / drive / mindset, no prior personal issues that affected his basketball career, natural shooter and just all around a smart kid with a passion for the game.

    KPJ work ethic is questionable, his passion for the game too, as it just comes easy to him and that’s while being less than efficient as a shooter while being a shoot-first PG.
     
  18. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    Ewww!!! The last thing I want them to be is Francis and Cuttino.
     
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  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I'm not sold on his shooting based on the small sample if 15 games in the G league. KPJ shot 38% from 3 over his last 15 games and I'm not sold on his shooting either.

    Mental stability could be a point, but I'm more talking about basketball reasons.

    Neither of them play any defense but KPJ is a much more complete offensive player than Green. Right now Green isn't even good enough to dominate the G league, but even if he improved on what he does, he's still not a player you want running an offense, he's just a guy that can sometimes create his own shot.
     
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  20. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    Also I am more excited about the trio of KPJ, Green and Wood.
     
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