well, it's evident that the rockets would do almost anything to get stromile....i'd like to know all the different ways we can get him....keep in mind he can be available at 4 or MAYBE 5.....and also that the clipps might be willing to trade.....and he might pull a francis on van or lac...... i say we give up #9, walt, drew for #3.... what do YOU think?
One problem here is that I don't think that Van. and Lac. management are Rocket Fans. Swift is a 95% Franchise player sure thing!!! Williams, Drew, Cato, and KT are not Franchise players. The only guy who could be a franchise player is the #9 pick and thats depending on who's available. Martin, Fizer, Mihm, and Swift are the top 4 picks. Miller, Pryzbillia, Alexander, Miles, Moiso, and Demar Johnson are the next 6 picks. Moiso apparently needs one more season and he could possibly be a top 4 pick next year. Johnson was slated as a top 3 pick in 2 years. Miles is supposedly a freak of athleticism and up side is out of the Roof. Alexander was the Nations leading scorer without a jump shot. So, supprizingly enough, some of the better players in this draft could come out in the bottom 10 picks of the top 10. But Swift is the surest thing in this draft. ------------------
Then again...... Miller to me is just another Walt Williams so why bother with him. Williams in College played point guard for a while. And as of the End of the Season, he was obviously the veteran team leader. Is is strange or a coincidence that just as soon as Williams made his turnaround the Rockets began to win? So any team doing this trade would essentially be acquiring Williams the equivalent of Miller. Drew, a point guard who would go in the top 15. Then they would get the #9 pick who as you know of now could be any of a number of guys. And as you know, Miller is slated to go as high as 6th. This trade does make sense to a point. ------------------
No sane team, especially a team needing a PF trades the #3 pick for Drew, Williams, and the #9. Sorry if I sound negative, but I am being realistic. It there is a player you rather not have on the Rockets, most likely other teams don't want them either. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Sky Pilot (edited May 29, 2000).]
The Clips need players more than another franchise player IMO. It's not out of the question for them to trade their #3 for a starting PG (DREW), PF (KT), a #9 and a role player like Rogers. That would probably do more for their team than any draft. Besides how could anyone with a straight face inject logic into the same sentence as the Clips. For all we know they might trade the pick for some new jerseys to get out of a guarenteed contract . I guess we will know in a few weeks. ------------------
The Clips need a PF and a PG. They are better off keeping the #3, drafting a PF, and then using the #18 to get a PG. No team that is sane will trade a high pick for our trash. ------------------
The clippers have a franchise player in Odom. If they were to get Drew and KT they could draft a SG in place of Derek Anderson who I believe is a free agent now.......(Not sure) But then you have this line up: Kandi/Closs Kenny Thomas/Taylor Odom/Nesby Drafted SG/Nesby or Anderson if he isn't gone Drew/Jones Nesby can be like a Shandon Anderson to the clipps cause he can play both the SG and SF. Think about that. That I think would be the best line-up they have had since 93! Mean while we would have (this is the fun bit) : Cato/Dream/Pig Swift/Rogers/Pig Wizard/Shandon/Bullard Shandon/Cat Francis/Moochie Now that's a team! (Cato must develop a offensive game though!) ------------------ (Signature deleted). [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited June 02, 2000).]
The Clips will likely sign and trade both Taylor and Anderson. It would be better for the Clippers to fill their needs with the draft and from the two likely sign and trades. Thomas, Drew, and the #9 is not worth the #3 and not a good deal for the Clippers. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Sky Pilot (edited May 30, 2000).]
A few things : 1) Taylor will not do a sign-n-trade with the Clips. His agent is Falk, who is still upset the Clips chose Olowokandi over his client, Mike Bibby. He won't do them any favors at all. 2) The Clips have done some enormously stupid things in the past, this is not out of the question. Remember, they gave up Antonio McDyess for Brent Barry and Rodney Rogers. 3) Or, the Rockets could let Swift be drafted by the Clips, let them develop him and realize his potential, and then when is Rookie contract is up, sign him as a FA.
A few things : 1). Taylor can make more money in a sign and trade, David Faulk isn't stupid. 2). While the Clippers aren't the smartest team in the world, they aren't incredibly stupid either. They wouldn't deal the #3 for a combination of Thomas, Cato, Drew, and the #9. 3). I agree, but with the new CBA, we may have to wait awhile. I don't think Swift gets past #2, he has too much potential and I expect Martin to go #1, which makes Vancouver's choice easy. I personally think the Clippers will draft Fizer. ------------------
My Reply : 1) He isn't stupid, but he's a vengeful SOB. Taylor doesn't like the Clippers, his agent doesn't like the Clippers, and they don't want the Clippers to get anything for him. If Taylor gets moved in a sign-n-trade it'll be for peanuts. 2) Unless of course Swift doesn't want to play for the Clippers, thats only rumors, but it could scare the Clippers management. We swap picks for them along with Drew and Thomas. We get Swift, They get local boy Moiso. 3) I think the Grizz will play it safe and take Fizer. There haven't been any rumblings from his camp about not wanting to play anywhere, whilst there are rumors about Swift. And while they are only rumors, Vancouver probably won't risk another player refusing to play for them. ------------------
My reply: 1). Faulk won't take less money and with the Clips track record, it wouldn't be a surprise to see them pick #1 again. If Faulk purposely screws them, he may cost future clients a shot at being #1. If Faulk is truly smart, he gets the sign and trade done unless Taylor himself wants less money in return for a shot to play for a winner (or to not cost his future team the players it would take to land him). 2). If the Clips are scared of drafting Swift, it may cause an Orlando, Vancouver, Clippers three way depending on whom NJ takes #1. I still believe we have no shot at trading up to #3 or higher. I do think Fizer will be available at #3 and the Clippers will take him. 3). I believe Martin and Swift are the top two players on Vancouver's draft list. Dick Versace is doing his best Jerry Krause misinformation imitation and the press is eating it up (hence the Fizer rumors). However if you compare Versace's talk to that of assistant team president Billy Knight, it is pretty much obvious that Vancouver is looking at Swift really hard. I don't think Vancouver is worried about another Francis situation and I would expect their new management to be more careful in their pre-draft interviews. I am still working on my mock draft however I already have Swift going to Vancouver at #2. He is just too perfect of fit. ------------------
More thoughts : 1) I agree that Falk will want to get the most money for his client, but he's convinced Taylor he's worth the max, no team will take on that much salary for a PF who doesn't defend or rebound. I don't think a S&T is likely because Falk and Taylor want to punish the Clips and that no team would likey trade for him at the max. 2) I believe its impossible to trade up to #1 or #2. However, never underestimate Donald Sterling's ability to screw his team over. 3) I'll agree the Knight has been rather loose-liped with regards to Vancouver's prefrences, but it's no secret who Krause wants. He wants Mihm, and he wants Miles. Either Vancouver or NJ might(and this is a small possibility) draft Mihm simply to force Krause's hand, either trade us your picks, or lose the guy you covet. In conclusion, I think its highly unlikely the Rockets will get Swift, but not impossible. I'd say the Rockets have a 15-20% chance of getting him. ------------------
One other note. This is the off-season where players value tends to escalate in direct opposite to their actual talent (See Kelvin Cato, Ike Austin, Juwon Howard). Hell, just look at Rashard Lewis. He averaged 8ppg and evryone thinks he's the best player available this off-season. Teams look at what players did in certain situations. When Bryce started he played very well. That's what will be seen over the summer. The teams will talk him up and by the start of next season he'll be an all-star. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rocketsauce (edited May 30, 2000).]
I think that a deal of Drew, KT, Cato, and the #9 is worth the #3 pick from the clips, and maybe even Kandi. Think about it... Mo Taylor wants out solution: Kenny Thomas, young power forward with bright future and nice potential Kandi doesn't like the clippers either, and a lot of people in LA don't like him. solution: Kelvin Cato, nearly identical to Kandi with more athletecism. They need someone who wants to play for them. solution: Moiso They need a point guard. soution: Drew, who will prolly do good for them if he starts Now, if Taylor, Kandi were happy with the situation in LA, then the clips don't make that trade. But they want out, especially Taylor. So, you pretty much replace them with KT and Cato(granted Taylor is better than KT, but KT will develop). And if Swift truly does not wanna play in LA, then there's no point of drafting him. ------------------ treasurer of the moochie norris fan club
My thoughts: [*]Everyone here is overvaluing Drew. If the Clippers are trading away the #3, I am sure they can get more elsewhere. [*]Vancouver would never draft Mihm to force Krause's hand. Krause's Mihm talk may simpily be a bluff (remember last year?). Vancouver won't take the chance of being stuck with a player they don't want when the player they need will be at #2 (Swift or Martin). [*]I say the Rockets chances of getting Swift are under 1%. [*]Rashard Lewis's value is so high because he is 20 years old, and wasn't a regularly used player until midway through the season (thus deflating his stats). Just look at his playoff numbers. [*]LA better fills their needs by drafting a PF at #3. If Puedlfor's Taylor prediction is accurate, LA will end up being power forwardless without compensation making the #3 pick even more valuble. ------------------
I agree with skypilot on a lot of stuff. swift will be extremely difficult to get. but i disagree taht our players are "trash" On Bryce Drew ALot of people are overvalueing him here. but bryce can play ball. he has a nice shot, and plays well when he gets minutes, starts, and has confidence. now the clippers like him. im not saying he is a deal breaker, but he is a necessary part of a trade if there will be one. On Getting Swift chances from LA I think its about maybe a 20% chance we will get him. keep in mind the clips management often doesnt know what they are doing. at all. they dont have a coach ready either. if the clips draft swift it will be to trade him. because swift will not play there. On other teams getting swift I dont see any team as desperate for him as us. hell if u asked me i might throw SA in the deal. i love SA, but swift is something special IMO. it would allow mobes to start. but thats pretty radical and not likely. im not sure about vancouver. ive heard mixed things from them. if NJ goes for mihm they choose martin period. if NJ goes for kmart, they could draft swift, trade to chi or orl for picks and get fizer, or even draft mihm who knows. On KT on the clips he is a good guy to come off the bench IMO. he works hard on boards, something they lack, and provides some versatile offense, something they need. the clips should lik him On Cato with the Clips Not sure thye r drooling over him, maybe he could help w/ shaq some. not sure if he is a necessity in a deal due to his attitude, paycheck, and raw skills On drafting Moiso for the Clips The clips i think would like to have a hometown product with a quiet demeanor. a Moiso/Kandi/Odom frontline could kick some ass. Moiso is identical in terms of athletic ability, and has a nicer out shot. the clips would love to have him i think. On fizer and the clips They could go for fizer. that wouldnt be a bad choice at all. but i have heard that fizer and the grizz like each other. alot. fizer actually WANTS to play with them. On Mo Taylor this is where i disagree with Sky Pilot. no matter how much $$$ they throw at MO taylor he is gone. he is so mad and so alienated by the clips management he will leave no matter what falk says. sorry but i dont think he will resign, hell sterling is so cheap he might not offer him anything. On Derek Anderson He is also gone. there are some teams like the jazz, heat, etc. that would love to get him, he hates the clipps management too. i just dont see him resigning. this leaves a whole at SG On the Clipps #18 pick PGs arent as hard to fine as major talented shooting guards. the clips could choose a PG here, but if thhey decide to trade, it would be wise to take a Ja Ron Rush, Desmond Mason, Michael Redd, chris carrawell, or even Q richardson if they are available. i think they would go for a SG if they were smart, but most mock drafts have them taking a PG, including mine but anything can happen. On Carlos Rogers with the clips he would get the minutes and maybe thrive here. i would throw him in or at least try to. as you can see im skeptical of our chances of getting swift, and skypilot is right, the clips arent likely to be stupid again and make a bonehead trade. but if we offer them like #9, next year #1, Detroits and Orl future owed #1s, KT, Cato, Los, Drew, that is alot to refuse. salaries would be tough to figure out but im sure they could give us some scrubs. i dont know, chances for swift are slim to none but Rudy T never ceases to amaze me so i wont rule it out. i agree with skypilot that we cant offer them bare bones. so there are my comments. ------------------ --TEX
SkyPilot, your value of Rashard is exactly what I'm talking about. You think that whatever team gets him will get the 15ppg 8rbg version. The same holds true for Bryce. Teams look at his numbers when he starts and they're pretty good. I can't find the link but I remember when SF was hurt and there was quite a bit of comaprison going on stat-wise. If you are using one set of rules to evaluate Lewis then you must use the same to evaluate Drew. Consistency goes a long way on the BBS. ------------------
