(Damn, I have posted so much in the last week, I feel like I am back in college circa 1996! I must be on vacation.) Anyways, you wanna talk about the best dunker of all time? You know what I am seeing? I never ever thought that I would see a big man in my life who could make me say what I am gonna say...damn near blasphemy. Can you guys forgive me? Please? I just think its time. Here goes: IF! IF! IF! IF! Tim Duncan wins another ring and keeps averaging such RIDICULOUS states like 30 points and 20 rebounds and 5 assists...I mean, he got TWO MVP's already and is already been all NBA and all that...Low post moves galore and demeanor to go along with it. Hey, could this guy be just as good or better than Dream? I mean, we know Shaq just runs you over. Hes dominant, but come on. What would Shaq be like if he wasn't 450! If he was like Duncan and Dreams weight, would he be that good? I just think is so freakin awesome. I thought Garnett was reminding me of Olajuwon with all the moves and the versatility. But Duncans stats are so close to what Dream put up year after year in the playoffs...and he got TWO MVP's and a possible 2 rings. And not even close to 30. What do you think? Is Duncan as good as Dream? Close? Will he be better? May the heavens forgive me. If you never see me post again, I got hit by a Metro Bus.
i see performances like 32/20/7 blks like tonight and i start to wonder. but then someone posts stats that say hakeem actually had better numbers in his first 6 seasons than duncan did even though you think of duncan as the more polished one coming out of college. then i think, duncan will have to have 3 years like dream did from 92-93 to 94-95 to get to dream's level. but then i think duncan's got 2 mvp's (though dream should have had 2 mvp's) and goes all nba every year (and will for a while) and i wonder if he will end up looking better than dream (i.e. more mvp's and rings). but then i hear stuart scott interviewing drob and saying "how does a guy like duncan get these number so quietly" and i think that points to the whole crux of my problem with elevating him to such high stature. he gets 20 rebounds, but i don't think, man he really dominated the glass. he gets 7 blocks, but i don't think man he just owned that game defensively. now what i remember most from dream were those 3 prime years so maybe it's unfair, but when you got done watching a vintage dream performance, you just said "wow, he dominated that game." i rarely get that same freeling from watching duncan. if duncan keeps producing like he is and racks up 2, maybe 3 more titles and another mvp or 2, you have to start wondering if he beats out dream. i didn't get to see early dream so for those who did, would dream have been doing what duncan is doing if he had a drob at his side, and a bunch of great role players around him. i hear so many people here say we would've seen a few more rings in our time had the team not been broken up b/c of drugs. so, in response, at this point duncan can't be said to be better than dream. but when it's all said and done, he might have a very compelling case. hopefully my take isn't too stupid.
There's a fairly good discussion about this over here in the NBA Dish forum. I think Duncan benefits from being a C playing the PF position. If you want to compare Duncan the center vs Hakeem the center, then Hakeem would destroy Duncan in a game of 1 on 1. Dream would swallow Duncan up on defense, and he'd shake him out of his shoes on offense.
see that's the picture in my mind. but then i wonder if i'm being unfair by thinking of dream from those three super-prime years and not his whole career (or at least the point duncan is at now). i mean i don't wanna say he's better but then he keeps throwing 32/20 and 30/16 up there.
this has already been talked about in NBA Dish. I suggest you ask yourself if Duncan, in his 2nd season, could have destroyed arguably the best team ever, the defending champion 1986 Lakers. I also suggest you look at Hakeem's playoff stats for his entire career. There's a common belief with young rockets fans that Hakeem didn't hit his prime until 1993. Well, that's just an insult to how high Hakeem went in 93-96. Hakeem was in his prime from year 2 (1986 when he destroyed Magic/Kareem) until 97. His peak happened to elevate his to stratosphere levels where he's arguably a top 5 player of all time. Just because someone's peak is way above his normal prime stats doesn't mean you can dismiss his other years, especially when those years we top in the league as they were. Got to understand that the likes of Magic, Bird and Jordan were competing for MVPs in 80s with Hakeem, and, most importantly, Hakeem playoff stats were vastly superior to his regular season stats. If you discount his Toronto playoff series, he scored ~26.5ppg (about 8th for 60+ games) and ~6ppg more in the playoffs vs regular season (biggest differential ever for a 20+ scorer), and his playoff FG% is superior to Jabbar and Chamberlain. He also had about .5 more blocks in playoffs than regular season. The guy was Mr Playoff like Reggie Jackson was Mr October, as far as I'm concerned. Plus, Duncan will never be close to the defender Hakeem was or the scorer. Duncan has an edge on playmaking...but let's not talk about rebounding, because fall-away jumpers are not conducive to offensive rebounds. imo, this is not close. I love Duncan, but please don't compare him to a real center until at least when Duncan plays that position full time. Compare him to Malone, first.
Did you just say that Hakeem's "super prime years" are merely at what Duncan is at now? man, no one remembers 1986 do they, and all the great late 80's years. Do you realize Hakeem holds the NBA record for scoring in a 4 game series. He did that in, what?, 1988?
Duncan's skills shouldn't be belittled because he is as tall as a center and has the foot work to play the power forward position. When all is said and done, I think Duncan might have the chance to go down as the greatest basketball player to have played the game. Yes, I'm suggesting that he will most likely go down as being even better than Hakeem. There is a lot of bias in this clutch.bbs which is understandable but give Duncan his credit. He dominated Shaq this year and has already had a career that is worthy of the NBA Hall of Fame.
Hakeem's footwork was much better than Duncan's Hakeem's quickness was much better than Duncan's Hakeem's competition was much more difficult than Duncan's Duncan might have a better resume, but Hakeem would have eaten Duncan up in a game of one on one. The man not only could block your shot, but he could just as easily steal the ball from right under your nose. He also had multiple moves that were virtually unstoppable...
It is comments like this that make me laugh out loud at all the people who ever suggested Robinson was better than Hakeem. Clearly, this thread and these responses are final comments that Robinson can't be compared to Hakeem. It is pretty telling when no one compares Duncan to Robinson, after years of Robinson to Hakeem comparisons. Obviously, Robinson is not worthy of a Duncan comparison, so we pick the next higher player. Well, Duncan is not there, yet. Sorry.
duncan may win more than 2 titles, 2 mvps, but even after all this, in my opinion, duncan is a step below hakeem. hakeem totally dominated both sides of the court, and he did it at a level that duncan cant reach. for those that think otherwise, catch some of hakeem's old games on espn classic or nba tv. its unreal. hakeem should have retired after 99 -- that way his legend wouldnt have faded like it has now for people to say duncan may be better than him. on a related note, i cant even imagine how well hakeem would have done if raef lafrentz or nowitzki were guarding him. is there any place you can find playoff stats for every series for every year that hakeem was in the playoffs? someone needs to post those numbers on here
There is a massive war going on in this thread already discussing this : http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57435 LHutz would be ashamed of you Almoooo.
