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Devastating news: Russia freer than the US

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by GladiatoRowdy, May 15, 2004.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    Russia Enacts Sweeping Reforms in Drug Laws: No Jail for Possession http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/337/russia.shtml

    DRCNet reported in March that Russia was on the verge of making dramatic reforms to its draconian drug laws after the Duma passed legislation that would remove criminal penalties and the possibility of jail time for simple drug possession. But then the wheels flew off the whole process as drug warriors within the Russian government attempted to turn the reform on its head by defining the quantities of each drug that would constitute possession for personal use at levels so low as to render the reforms meaningless, or worse. (Visit http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/328/russia.shtml and http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/329/russialaw.shtml for our earlier coverage.)

    Now the drug warriors have been fought off, and reformers have managed to get quantities set at levels that will keep hundreds of thousands of Russian drug users out of prison. Under the old law, possession of even a single mar1juana cigarette could garner a three-year prison sentence. According to Russian authorities, somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 people are currently serving time for drug offenses.

    Under the new law -- actually an amendment to the Criminal Code -- which went into effect Wednesday, people possessing no more than 10 times the "average single dose" will no longer be charged with a crime, but an "administrative infraction." Possession of between 10 and 50 times the "average single dose" is punishable by a larger fine and community service, but again, no jail or prison time. Small-scale dealers will find themselves protected against drug trafficking charges by this second provision -- unless they get caught in the act of selling. Punishment for drug sales is increased under the new law.

    Here are the critical quantity levels determined by the Russian government in consultation with drug reform groups such as the Russian Harm Reduction Network and the NAN Foundation. These are the quantities that represent ten times the "average single dose," up to which no one can be arrested or criminally charged:

    heroin, 1.0 grams
    cocaine, 1.5 grams
    mar1juana, 20.0 grams (dried)
    hashish, 5.0 grams
    ecstasy, 0.5 grams
    methamphetamine, 0.5 grams
    mescaline, 0.5 grams
    LSD, 0.003 grams
    psilocybin, 0.005 grams

    The Russian equivalent of the DEA, the Federal Drug Control Service, wanted much lower levels, Vitaly Djuma, head of the Russian Harm Reduction Network, told DRCNet while the levels were being decided. "The agency responsible for setting new doses is the Ministry of Health," said Djuma, "but using its status as a state security agency, the Federal Drug Control Service (FDCS) tried to push through its own determinations where, for example, a single dose of heroin was 0.0001 gram, thus turning all drug users once again into 'drug dealers.' This could not only nullify the humanizing of legislation by the Russian administration but also directly threaten the safety -- and lives -- of millions of
    Russians who use drugs."

    Under the quantities proposed by the FDCS, the "average single dose" of mar1juana would be 0.0015 grams. With a standard joint weighing in at about one gram, possession of a single joint would make the possessor subject to penalties for drug dealing because one gram exceeds 50 doses (0.75 grams) by the FDCS standard. Similarly absurd low "average single doses" were set for other drugs as well.

    But all that has been undone, and the FDCS is not happy. "Now drug addicts have the right to run around with their pockets full of mar1juana, and we can't even detain them," FDCS deputy chief Alexander Mikhailov complained to the newspaper Kommersant Thursday. "The heroin dose is normal for a chronic drug user, but for a regular person it's nonetheless a dose of potassium cyanide. We were categorically against it, but the Justice Ministry simply went crazy chasing its European standards."

    An FDCS spokesman was more diplomatic. "It's the law, and we are required to abide by it and enforce it," he told the Moscow Times Thursday.

    Drug reformers welcomed the law and the new, improved "average single dose" levels. "This is a brave, humane law," said Lev Levinson, head of New Drug Policies, and one of the people who helped set the new quantities. "Now that police will stop persecuting users, they can start focusing on real threats like large-scale drug trafficking," he told the Times.

    Now, if the Russians can only reign in the drug warriors. They were busy repressing the Moscow Million mar1juana March last weekend (see newsbrief this issue).
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    I believe that it is a travesty that Russia is now making reforms to allow their citizens to be freer than their counterparts in the US. I guess the student has surpassed the master in freedoms given to their people.
     
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    no to be snide or offense
    just curious

    Are you a Member for Norml

    Rocket River
     
  4. twhy77

    twhy77 Contributing Member

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    And in other news andymoon was seen getting on a plane heading for Moscow today.
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    I read (or have read) most of their literature and am on their mailing list, but I like www.stopthedrugwar.com as it is a bit more comprehensive in that it focuses on ALL drug policy rather than just mar1juana.

    I actually think that NORML should be far more political and perhaps even start a mar1juana Party in the US. The MJ Party in Canada is thriving and is making massive headway in the laws up there. They shelved their decrim bill this year ( http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/337/ca.shtml ), but their policy on MJ is turning around dramatically.
     
  6. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    No, he's coming to Canda, where, one day last summer, a couple of friends and I walked down one of the more prominent streets in Toronto's business district, in the middle of a sunny afternoon, smoking a J and enjoying life. What a really nice, relaxed day.

    ( BTW, andy...did you ever get my E-Mail? Never got a response.)
     
  7. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Or even Canada.
     
  8. Faos

    Faos Contributing Member

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    Is there an emoticon for to symbolize me biting my tongue?
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Russia is not freer than the US.
     
  10. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    Can't argue with logic like that.

    Faos: there isn't an emoticon like that, but curiously there is an 'emoticon' for its opposite -- your post.

    If you guys have something to say, say it. Saying 'I'm biting my tongue' or flatly stating andy's just wrong without posting any kind of argument to support that is saying less than nothing. Might as well just not post if you're just posting to say you're not saying anything.
     
  11. Faos

    Faos Contributing Member

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    Ok.

    I'm not for loosening our drug laws.

    There.

    Hey, you are right. That wasn't so hard after all. Thanks, BJ !
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    As I have mentioned (numerous times) before, I am not interested in smoking pot, I am interested in having a drug policy that reduces availability to children at ANY cost. If the cost is that adults have to have regulated, legal access to drugs in order to reduce the availability to our young people, then I say lets do it. We will win the war on drugs when we increase the average age at which one is first exposed to drugs. Statistics clearly show that the age one is first exposed to drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) for the first time is directly related to prevalence of use in later years.

    If we are the land of the free and the home of the brave, why is the "evil empire" giving its citizens more freedom than the good 'ol U. S. of A?
     
  13. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    No, I didn't. Try again and I will be looking for it more closely.
     
  14. Faos

    Faos Contributing Member

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    So their lax drug laws make Russia a better place to live? Man, if that's how you set your standards...
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Since when do you think your horse is high enough to lecture us on how to post or not?

    But, especially for you...since you apparently need to have things spelled out which should at least partly be evident.

    1) Rules about drug usage are not the only determinant of how "free" a country is.


    2) Observers condemn Russia election

    Putin vowed to safeguard "democratic achievements"
    Russia's presidential election has failed to meet democratic standards, European election observers say.
    Sunday's poll did not meet criteria "necessary for a healthy democratic election process", said chief observer Julian Peel Yates in Moscow

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3512970.stm


    3) Putin shows his true colors

    http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/pubaffairs/we/current/mcfaul_0501.html


    4) This is by no means representative, but I have about 8 Russian friends who would not subscribe to the statement made in the thread title, and in contrast to, let me guess, andymoon and Batman Jones, they have spent significant time in both countries.
     
  16. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    What really pisses me off is that they are trying to (and they are) take my gun rights away and to re-issue the gun ban of 1994!...This is utterly devastating...I DEMAND ALL THE RIGHTS IS BELONG TO US!!!!

    Yes to drugs!...
    Yes to same sex, opposite sex, and multiple sex marriages!...
    Yes to sunsetting the gun ban and the consideration to turn over the National Firearms Act of 1934...I want my sawed off shotguns less than 18 inches, and machine guns!

    we are seeing our rights taken away and I would appreciate all you people's support in embracing ALL of our rights that are slowly being taken away!...and it's ALL or Nothing, Baby!!!! :mad:

    GIVE US BACK OUR RIGHTS!!!!!
     
  17. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Oh. My. God.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Yeah, I would have thought that you kind of look and act like Janice...
     
  19. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    Jackie:

    I've never been to Russia. I hardly had to go there to know that "no, it's not" isn't a particularly strong argument. And my horse didn't have to be particularly high to find issue with your posting style. Considering you give a pass to TJ, who is widely considered to be a laughingstock, on everything and MacBeth, who's a pretty widely respected poster, on nothing (and in fact, pretty much stalk him, tracking him down wherever he posts to needle him - what a bizarre obsession), I don't think I'm wandering too far out of the mainstream to tell you 'nuh unh' is a waste of bandwidth.
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    So let me get this straight - you lament a lack of arguments and then fail to address them once they are given? Are they too difficult to understand for you?
     

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