Yikes I did not know this until my friend who is a Pistons fan told me. I know they have had injuries but that is unacceptable. Did Joe Dumars ruin that team?
Exhibit A: Trade Chauncey for AI. Exhibit B: Free agent signings last off season... 1. Ben Gordon $10M/$10.8/$11.6/$12.4/$13.2 2. Charlie Villanueva $6.5M/$7/$7.5/$8/$8.5 Game. Blouses.
They looked absolutely horrible last night against the Bulls. They're full of quit...it's like watching the bizarro Rockets.
I agree Chauncey for AI was stupid, but the signing of CharlieV and Gordon is not too bad, of course I think Gordon received way more than his value. Its probably the coach or the style of play, this team has an outrageous amount of talent. Hasn't there been a couple of injuries, players coming in/out of the lineup does screw up a team pretty badly.
Sometimes it's better to be really bad than somewhere in the middle. If you haven't already, check out this GARM thread for a good discussion to that end: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=180008 Maybe all of these moves by Dumars weren't quite as unintentional as they appear on the surface. I know the Pistons were very good before he started tearing things apart but maybe he figured they just weren't quite good enough to compete with some of the other teams on the rise. I have no idea. I'm just hypothesizing.
Dumars is a good GM, if you read PistonPowered (via hoopshype) So there you have it, since the Nets merely cut their blunder and Dumars trades away his repeated draft mistakes... Dumars is a good GM.
Well a lot of people thought Exhibit A was an obvious move but I guess they didn't think it would lead to Exhibit B. Maybe he should have saved that money to spend this upcoming off-season.
everytime i seen stuckey play, the refs tonsil bless his nutsack like he's a damn superstar or smth.....hard to believe they still lost 13 straight even w/ that
Don't get me wrong Ben Gordon can play but at the money he's getting he is definitely not worth it. Charlie V I really don't agree with though. This guy is getting MLE money plus a little, and this guy is falling out of favor fast in DET. He's like a eyebrow-less Brian Cook without the expiring deal.
To think in some ways the Gordon and Villanueva contracts are almost bargains compared to previous years of league overspending. Ben Gordon deserves his contract more than Kirk Hinrich does his. In some past years Villanueva could have gotten the contract dollars Ben Gordon got. Overpaid is still overpaid. That shouldnt get you a 13 game losing streak. Just how Villanueva is making Kelvin Cato money and he's way more worth it.
No...what Detroit is going through right now is totally natural in the sports world. We are seeing the twilight years (and rebuilding phase) of a powerhouse team. In this decade, it has happened to the Atlanta Braves, St. Louis Rams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and even briefly to Yankees and Lakers. I can even say that we might've seen it this weekend with Patriots and Eagles. It's not necessarily poor GM moves, but simply personnel is not what it used to be, mainly because FA and an aging starters and contributors. Most of the teams above simply peaked. After one disappointing playoff loss (or series), then possibly another (either happening continuously or sometimes not making the playoffs at all). Those franchises get to a point where they have to change things, significantly and start to get younger (or put a slightly more competitive roster together) . One reason being is that the championship team that you once had (even with the same players) is not good enough to beat the current playoff teams or the elite teams of the conference. Next comes the price of keeping those valuable players, in which is consistently putting a strain on the teams salary, more times than not, since some players aren't going to settle for a hometown discount, especially when you have a deep roster with players who can start on other teams or head somewhere else for a record contract. Last is most likely the biggest offender of all, the core players are just getting old. When your starters are getting to the point of being on average over 33+ in most leagues that's not necessarily a good sign (especially if you aren't winning championships). You can replace players, but you can't replace them to the quality of last starter. This happens all of the time in the NFL teams replace a starting (HOF) QB with someone who could range from pro-bowl quality to slight above average. It would be ridiculous to think you can draft someone or sign free agent who is up to par with Peyton Manning, Steve Young, or John Elway in one offseason. It just doesn't happen very often. I can say the same Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Shaquille O'Neal, Nolan Ryan, or Barry Bonds. It is almost unreasonable to expect a new FA or rookie to emulate what those players did in their prime or even twilight years. Ex. Having Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and John Smoltz at the top of the rotation in 1993 - 2000 sounds awesome. Having Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and John Smoltz in your rotation for 2006 sounds like you are going to need help in other places on the team. Also, look at the Florida Marlins and their cheap(#ss) owner. He hasn't spent money on that team in years. One way he does it is by making his team younger and younger every year. Acquiring mostly minor league prospects. But, I think owner intentionally makes them a losing team, which is another story. Another good example is the New England Patriots' defense. You can't expect the defense to be up to snuff to what it was from 2001-07. The key players have either gotten old or injured and retired, been traded away for draft picks, or simply left as free agents. It's almost unreasonable to expect a new defense to be as good as the championship one (especially with inferior players in certain spots or one that is as experience).
Maybe he saw/sees them as long-term pieces? Ben Gordon can be an elite 6th man and Charlie V. has been one of their better players this season. I'm not insinuating that every move he made was perfectly calculated but I'm not sure he expected them to become immediately better, either. He may have felt that they weren't going to win a championship despite being a very good team and figured it was time to get younger and think toward the future. My underlying point is that I'm not sure that Dumars really destroyed this team. He may just be getting ahead of the rebuilding curve.
This. GMs of declining contenders get little credit but rebuilding them can even harder than starting scratch with, say, Atlanta or the Clippers. I don't think that the team's performance in the past two years is Dumars's fault. The Iverson trade made sense as a salary dump and gaining a very good stopgap player. Witnessing Chicago's drop-off from last year to this shows how much Ben Gordon contributes; this year he's just been banged up with multiple injures. Villanoeyebrows is a great guy despite his reputation as a chowderhead and is a legit four. Ben Wallace looks almost rejuvenated this year. The personnel isn't bad but the injuries are atrocious: Rip, Stuckey, Gordon, Prince. But for a rebuilding team, a down season isn't terrible.
The problem with Detroit is that they are already "rebuilt". The core that was aging was basically Billups and Wallace. As another poster said, trading Ai for Billups was a terrible short-term move, but an amazing long term move. By getting rid of those guys Dumars put their franchise on a quick smooth road to rebuilding. However following it up by signing Gordon and Villanueva basically undoes whatever good he did by getting rid of Billups. I mean for the same price I'd rather have Billups than Gordon and Villanueva. Gordon is good enough to be a starter and IMHO is somewhat worthy of his contract, but you need to have a pg who can cover for his defense, which the Pistons don't have (stuckey is a defensive sieve). Villanueva was just a terrible signing. I wouldn't pay him more than 4 million a year, he got double that. The irony is Dumars got guys at positions he was already stacked at. Stuckey is essentially a poor man's version of Gordon, and Rip is still better than Gordon overall. Prince is much better than Villanueva. Essentially, Dumars used his space to sign two bench players.
