I thought these sort of breakdowns might be interesting to people here. I just went through the play by play and recorded the following informatino. I might do this for later games, if people find it useful. It helps me sort out which player combinations played well, which didn't, and where we really started to lose the game. Looks to me that we really struggled late in the third and halfway through the fourth when JVG had Howard and then Padgett at PF. Don't want to pin all the blame on them, as there was some pretty horrendous guard play in that stretch as well, but that does sort of stick out to me. Code: [SIZE=1][B]Qtr startTime endTime P5 P4 P3 P2 P1 O5 O4 O3 O2 O1 plus/minus HOU SAS HOU' SAS'[/B] 1 12:00 9:20 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Oberto Duncan Bowen Ginobili Parker -1 0 0 5 6 1 9:20 5:36 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Elson Duncan Bowen Ginobili Parker 3 5 6 16 14 1 5:36 4:04 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Elson Duncan Bowen Finley Parker 5 16 14 21 14 1 4:04 3:14 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Finley Udrich -2 21 14 21 16 1 3:14 2:03 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Finley Udrich 0 21 16 23 18 1 2:03 0:00 Mutombo Howard McGrady Snyder Alston Elson Horry Finley Ginobili Udrich -1 23 18 27 23 2 12:00 8:33 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston Elson Horry Finley Ginobili Udrich -4 27 23 34 34 2 8:33 8:19 Yao Padgett Battier Head Alston Duncan Horry Finley Ginobili Parker 0 34 34 34 34 2 8:19 6:40 Yao Padgett Battier Head Alston Duncan Horry Barry Ginobili Parker 4 34 34 40 36 2 6:40 5:51 Yao Padgett Battier McGrady Head Duncan Horry Barry Bowen Parker 1 40 36 43 38 2 5:51 2:54 Mutombo Padgett Battier McGrady Head Elson Duncan Barry Bowen Parker 2 43 38 47 40 2 2:54 2:10 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Duncan Finley Bowen Ginobili Parker -2 47 40 47 42 2 2:10 1:42 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Duncan Finley Bowen Ginobili Udrich 1 47 42 49 43 2 1:42 0:00 Mutombo Battier McGrady Head Alston Duncan Finley Bowen Ginobili Udrich 7 49 43 56 43 3 12:00 9:44 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Oberto Duncan Bowen Ginobili Parker -1 56 43 61 49 3 9:44 5:31 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Elson Duncan Bowen Ginobili Parker 4 61 49 71 55 3 5:31 5:15 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Elson Duncan Bowen Finley Parker 0 71 55 71 55 3 5:15 3:56 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Finley Parker 0 71 55 74 58 3 3:56 3:38 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Finley Udrich 1 74 58 75 58 3 3:38 2:15 Mutombo Howard McGrady Snyder Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Finley Udrich -2 75 58 75 60 3 2:15 0:00 Yao Howard McGrady Snyder Alston Elson Horry Bowen Finley Udrich -11 75 60 75 71 4 12:00 9:13 Yao Padgett Battier Head Alston Elson Horry Finley Ginobili Udrich -4 75 71 75 75 4 9:13 7:41 Yao Padgett Battier McGrady Head Elson Duncan Finley Ginobili Udrich 2 75 75 79 77 4 7:41 6:45 Mutombo Padgett Battier McGrady Head Duncan Horry Bowen Ginobili Parker -2 79 77 79 79 4 6:45 5:41 Yao Padgett Battier McGrady Head Duncan Horry Bowen Ginobili Parker -3 79 79 79 82 4 5:41 4:34 Yao Padgett McGrady Head Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Ginobili Parker -4 79 82 79 86 4 4:34 4:02 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Ginobili Parker 0 79 86 81 88 4 4:02 2:29 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Elson Duncan Bowen Ginobili Parker 0 81 88 83 90 4 2:29 0:26 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Duncan Horry Bowen Ginobili Parker -1 83 90 84 92 4 0:26 0:00 Padgett Battier McGrady Head Alston Oberto Elson Finley Barry Udrich 0 84 92 84 92 [/SIZE]
these are interesting in showing why jvg made certain subs at certain times. can't read too much into them except maybe rafer needs a breather, ie backup. diener can be what the rockets signed lucas for after the summer league. i can't wait till dec for a change.
Here it is for the HOU-MIA game: Code: [size="1"] [B]Qtr startTime endTime P5 P4 P3 P2 P1 O5 O4 O3 O2 O1 +/- HOU MIA HOU' MIA' [/B]1 12:00 4:48 Yao Hayes Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton -7 0 0 12 19 1 4:48 1:53 Mutombo Hayes Battier McGrady Alston Mourning Haslem Walker Wade Payton 3 12 19 20 24 1 1:53 0:29 Mutombo Hayes McGrady Snyder Alston Mourning Haslem Posey Wade Payton 2 20 24 22 24 1 0:29 0:23 Mutombo Hayes McGrady Snyder Head Mourning Haslem Posey Wright Payton -1 22 24 22 25 1 0:23 0:02 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Head Mourning Haslem Posey Wright Payton 0 22 25 22 25 1 0:02 0:00 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Mourning Haslem Posey Wright Payton 0 22 25 22 25 2 12:00 8:10 Yao Howard Snyder Head Alston O'neal Walker Posey Wright Wade -2 22 25 26 31 2 8:10 7:17 Yao Howard Battier Snyder Head O'neal Walker Posey Wright Wade 0 26 31 28 33 2 7:17 6:17 Yao Howard Battier Snyder Head O'neal Walker Posey Wright Payton 2 28 33 30 33 2 6:17 3:16 Yao Howard Battier Snyder McGrady Mourning Walker Posey Wade Payton 1 30 33 36 38 2 3:16 2:53 Mutombo Howard Battier Snyder McGrady O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton -2 36 38 36 40 2 2:53 1:37 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton 1 36 40 37 40 2 1:37 0:52 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Posey Wade Payton 0 37 40 37 40 2 0:52 0:29 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Posey Wright Payton 0 37 40 37 40 2 0:29 0:00 Hayes Howard Battier McGrady Alston Haslem Walker Posey Wright Wade 0 37 40 39 42 3 12:00 5:17 Yao Hayes Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton 3 39 42 51 51 3 5:17 5:06 Mutombo Hayes Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton 0 51 51 51 51 3 5:06 3:30 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton -1 51 51 53 54 3 3:30 2:18 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston Mourning Haslem Walker Wade Payton 0 53 54 55 56 3 2:18 0:27 Yao Howard Battier Head Alston Mourning Haslem Posey Wade Payton 5 55 56 60 56 3 0:27 0:08 Yao Howard Battier Head Alston Mourning Haslem Posey Wade Kapono 0 60 56 60 56 3 0:08 0:00 Mutombo Howard Battier Head Alston Haslem Walker Posey Wade Kapono 0 60 56 60 56 4 12:00 9:27 Yao Howard Battier Head Alston O'neal Haslem Posey Wade Kapono 2 60 56 64 58 4 9:27 6:58 Yao Howard McGrady Snyder Head O'neal Walker Posey Wade Kapono -1 64 58 68 63 4 6:58 5:12 Yao Howard McGrady Snyder Head O'neal Walker Posey Payton Kapono 5 68 63 76 66 4 5:12 3:59 Yao Howard McGrady Snyder Head O'neal Walker Posey Wade Payton 2 76 66 78 66 4 3:59 3:18 Yao Howard McGrady Snyder Head O'neal Haslem Walker Wade Payton 0 78 66 82 70 4 3:18 1:16 Yao Howard McGrady Snyder Head Haslem Walker Posey Wade Payton 9 82 70 91 70 4 1:16 0:00 Howard Padgett Snyder Head V-Span Haslem Posey Wright Kapono Quinn 1 91 70 94 92 [/size]
Interesting. Other than the first part of the game when Shaq was awake and doing well, the only negatives in the Miami game were when Howard was on the court. Oh no, I take that back. There was a combo of 6 seconds with Synder, Head, Hayes, Tmac and Mutumbo.
I should have taken another look at the names before I posted. Synder was on the court in all but one of those negatives as well. Stats are so interesting to study.
Plus/minus for the HOU-CHI game: Code: [size="1"][B]Qtr startTime endTime P5 P4 P3 P2 P1 O5 O4 O3 O2 O1 +/- HOU CHI HOU' CHI'[/B] 1 12:00 3:55 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Duhon Hinrich -6 0 0 13 19 1 3:55 3:23 Mutombo Howard McGrady Head Alston Thomas Brown Deng Duhon Hinrich 2 13 19 15 19 1 3:23 2:49 Mutombo Howard McGrady Head Alston Thomas Brown Deng Gordon Hinrich -4 15 19 15 23 1 2:49 0:00 Mutombo Padgett McGrady Head Alston Thomas Brown Deng Gordon Hinrich 2 15 23 20 26 2 12:00 10:58 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston Thomas Brown Nocioni Gordon Hinrich 2 20 26 22 26 2 10:58 10:01 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston Wallace Thomas Nocioni Gordon Hinrich -2 22 26 22 28 2 10:01 8:14 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston Wallace Thomas Nocioni Gordon Duhon 4 22 28 26 28 2 8:14 7:20 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Duhon 1 26 28 29 30 2 7:20 5:50 Yao Padgett Battier Snyder Head Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Duhon 2 29 30 31 30 2 5:50 5:03 Yao Padgett Battier Snyder Head Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Hinrich 0 31 30 31 30 2 5:03 3:49 Padgett Battier McGrady Snyder Head Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Hinrich 7 31 30 40 32 2 3:49 2:41 Padgett Battier McGrady Snyder Head Wallace Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 1 40 32 43 34 2 2:41 2:17 Padgett Battier McGrady Snyder Head Sweetney Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich -1 43 34 43 35 2 2:17 0:27 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Head Sweetney Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 1 43 35 48 39 2 0:27 0:00 Yao McGrady Snyder Head Alston Sweetney Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 2 48 39 50 39 3 12:00 9:25 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Duhon Hinrich 10 50 39 62 41 3 9:25 5:54 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Wallace Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich 0 62 41 71 50 3 5:54 4:58 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston Wallace Allen Thomas Gordon Hinrich -2 71 50 71 52 3 4:58 3:21 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston Wallace Allen Thomas Gordon Hinrich 0 71 52 74 55 3 3:21 2:54 Mutombo Howard Battier Head Alston Wallace Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich -1 74 55 75 57 3 2:54 1:55 Mutombo Howard Battier Head Alston Brown Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich -2 75 57 77 61 3 1:55 0:00 Yao Padgett Battier Head Alston Brown Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich -7 77 61 78 69 4 12:00 9:36 Yao Padgett McGrady Snyder Head Brown Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich -1 78 69 80 72 4 9:36 6:48 Yao Padgett McGrady Snyder Head Wallace Brown Deng Gordon Hinrich 3 80 72 86 75 4 6:48 5:33 Yao Padgett McGrady Snyder Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich -4 86 75 90 83 4 5:33 0:33 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich -3 90 83 92 88 4 0:33 0:31 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 1 92 88 93 88 4 0:31 0:27 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich -2 93 88 93 90 4 0:27 0:27 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 2 93 90 95 90 4 0:27 0:21 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich -2 95 90 95 92 4 0:21 0:14 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 1 95 92 99 95 4 0:14 0:00 Padgett Battier McGrady Head Alston Allen Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich -3 99 95 101 10 [/size] Code: [SIZE=2][B] Qtr time time' P5 P4 P3 P2 P1 +/- HOU CHI HOU' CHI'[/B] 1 12:00 3:55 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston -6 0 0 13 19 Wallace Nocioni Deng Duhon Hinrich 1 3:55 3:23 Mutombo Howard McGrady Head Alston 2 13 19 15 19 Thomas Brown Deng Duhon Hinrich 1 3:23 2:49 Mutombo Howard McGrady Head Alston -4 15 19 15 23 Thomas Brown Deng Gordon Hinrich 1 2:49 0:00 Mutombo Padgett McGrady Head Alston 2 15 23 20 26 Thomas Brown Deng Gordon Hinrich 2 12:00 10:58 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston 2 20 26 22 26 Thomas Brown Nocioni Gordon Hinrich 2 10:58 10:01 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston -2 22 26 22 28 Wallace Thomas Nocioni Gordon Hinrich 2 10:01 8:14 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston 4 22 28 26 28 Wallace Thomas Nocioni Gordon Duhon 2 8:14 7:20 Yao Padgett Snyder Head Alston 1 26 28 29 30 Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Duhon 2 7:20 5:50 Yao Padgett Battier Snyder Head 2 29 30 31 30 Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Duhon 2 5:50 5:03 Yao Padgett Battier Snyder Head 0 31 30 31 30 Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Hinrich 2 5:03 3:49 Padgett Battier McGrady Snyder Head 7 31 30 40 32 Wallace Khryapa Deng Gordon Hinrich 2 3:49 2:41 Padgett Battier McGrady Snyder Head 1 40 32 43 34 Wallace Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 2 2:41 2:17 Padgett Battier McGrady Snyder Head -1 43 34 43 35 Sweetney Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 2 2:17 0:27 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Head 1 43 35 48 39 Sweetney Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 2 0:27 0:00 Yao McGrady Snyder Head Alston 2 48 39 50 39 Sweetney Khryapa Thomas Gordon Hinrich 3 12:00 9:25 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston 10 50 39 62 41 Wallace Nocioni Deng Duhon Hinrich 3 9:25 5:54 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston 0 62 41 71 50 Wallace Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich 3 5:54 4:58 Yao Howard Battier McGrady Alston -2 71 50 71 52 Wallace Allen Thomas Gordon Hinrich 3 4:58 3:21 Mutombo Howard Battier McGrady Alston 0 71 52 74 55 Wallace Allen Thomas Gordon Hinrich 3 3:21 2:54 Mutombo Howard Battier Head Alston -1 74 55 75 57 Wallace Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich 3 2:54 1:55 Mutombo Howard Battier Head Alston -2 75 57 77 61 Brown Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich 3 1:55 0:00 Yao Padgett Battier Head Alston -7 77 61 78 69 Brown Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 12:00 9:36 Yao Padgett McGrady Snyder Head -1 78 69 80 72 Brown Allen Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 9:36 6:48 Yao Padgett McGrady Snyder Head 3 80 72 86 75 Wallace Brown Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 6:48 5:33 Yao Padgett McGrady Snyder Alston -4 86 75 90 83 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 5:33 0:33 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Alston -3 90 83 92 88 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 0:33 0:31 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston 1 92 88 93 88 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 0:31 0:27 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Alston -2 93 88 93 90 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 0:27 0:27 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston 2 93 90 95 90 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 0:27 0:21 Yao Battier McGrady Snyder Alston -2 95 90 95 92 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 0:21 0:14 Yao Battier McGrady Head Alston 1 95 92 99 95 Wallace Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich 4 0:14 0:00 Padgett Battier McGrady Head Alston -3 99 95 101 10 Allen Nocioni Deng Gordon Hinrich[/SIZE]
I wanted to get most of it to fit inside the code window without you having to scroll. Would it be better that I use normal size on the font (and then you'd have to scroll). Or is there a way to increase width of the code window?
You see the problem is the names of players take overwhelming space here. One solution I suggest is to use some short-handed notations for the playing units on the court, then at the bottom of the table spell them out. BTW, can't these stats be obtained from popcornmachine's gameflow page?
They can be. But it's not all spelled out in text form. With these, if you have Excel, you can easily calculate plus/minus for specifc player combinations. That's why I'm tracking them myself. Is the bottom table I added to the post better?
I really like this thread Durvasa. I hope you keep it going. After thinking about this game, just a couple thoughts. It was obvious from watching and looking at this data line that Gordon was the biggest difference maker against us. Everytime Chicago made a run at us against whatever combination we had out there, Gordon was no the floor. It is obvious from his stat line. He just got hot and lit us up. Which just illustrates that we didn't have the defensive answer more than anything. Gordon and Gordon in combinaton with Hinrich and then Gordon Hinrich and Deng in combination make Chicago a very very good offensive unit. If those 3 get hot, then they are going to make a game of it. If they are not, then Chicago is very mediocre in my view because their interior post offensive play is mediocre to poor. They are a perimeter oriented team. And we had no answer for Gordon. Looking at the numbers a little deeper. Head was +10 for this game. Rafer was -11 for this game. (Ouch, gonna hurt his Lenova stats.) Head's +/- at SG playing with Rafer was -2, and would have been +1 if not for the last second heave by Nocioni. Yao was +5 for the game, and +2 in combination with Howard. (That is actually quite amazing.) Yao could not make the most of his matchups, unfortunately because guys are fading off Howard to help check him. Howard was -1 for the game, primarily due to the fact that Chicago has virtually no scoring threats at the 4/5 and McGrady went off by himself in that one run where the starting unit was +10. CONCLUSION: We had no defensive answer for Gordon. Our best offensive game is when McGrady is initiating and either Head or Rafer is essentially playing off the ball. For Rafer to be effective, he HAS to hit the 3 ball. And we are much better defensively with Head at the point. Most of this stuff we already know. It would have been interesting to if either VSpan or Battier would have been effective on Gordon. During all that 2nd half run, I kept watching our defense. They just couldn't check Gordon. They couldn't keep him from getting off shots. It really didn't matter if it was Snyder, Head, or Rafer. He just kept getting loose. Obviously JVG is being judicous with Juwan's minutes. He played Battier at PF for a considerable part of the 2nd half, thereby preventing him from having the opportunity to see what he could do against Gordon. I think not having Hayes actually hurts us defensively from the perimeter because Battier cannot effectively move to the 2/3 defensively. Two guards that are small, fast, quick, with a handle and can shoot are going to give us trouble because of Rafer's obvious defensive deficiencies and Luther's lack of ability defensively against good shooting guards. Defensively, Luther is a point guard. Offensively, he is a liability handling and distributing. At some point, JVG is going to have to break out VSpan and see if he can give us something against these types of matchups. When you look at the roster, that is the matchup with Gordon that probably makes the most sense defensively. VSpan would have stuck on him like glue and made it difficult for him to receive the ball and get his shot off. We miss Hayes' intangibles. We need VSpan to develop his jumper and cut down the turnovers. I think we need to figure out Bonzi's situation sooner rather than later. If he ain't gonna sack up, we need to start looking to move him.
Very good analysis jopa. But one thing I would like to point out is, Head at PG with McGrady being the playmaker as the off-guard is an interesting combo. I don't know the exact +/- stats for that (the font hurts my eyes =X), but from what I've seen in games, Luther is absolutely killer off the swing pass from a McGrady move after pick and rolls. In effect, I see Alston and Head as polar opposites at the point offensively. You need Alston to start games, because he does a good job of getting the ball upcourt without hiccups, and he does a good job of running the show and distributing the ball. Then, you need Luther to come in and give defenses a different look at the PG spot, because he can kill you with the J which Alston is only so-so at. I like our guard rotation. The PF spot is another issue though. Obviously Hayes is the best fit for the team as a starting PF. Behind him though, I don't know. I would say because of the slight changes in the offensive scheme, Howard was more effective last year than this year. Whereas Battier is not a strong enough rebounder at the 4-spot.
Durvasa very nice - lays it all out there. We miss Hayes. jopatmc - agree with your conclusions. We just keep getting burnt by strong guards who Alston and Head cannot shut down. We need Billy to get some 3rd & 4th qtr minutes to shut down these late runs. Fresh legs won;t hurt either. Also when our shots go dead we need to start giving Novak some 5-8 minute segments to hit a few threes and re light the fuse, baby! Juwan has actually given us some good play lately, primarily at the beginning of games. But he seems unable to sustain it into the 3-4 qtrs. Padge does yeomans work out there but if he is to really help us he needs to stick more 3's otherwise play Novak. Bonzi where are you baby?
There is nothing wrong with getting torched by Ben Gordon. When he's on nobody can stop him. Our offense breaking down was the problem, not stopping Gordon. When the Bulls trade him later this season, I bet he explodes for his new team. He and Skiles have never gotten along and it's time to finally cut the cord. He will NOT be with the Bulls the entire season.
We scored 101 points. The problem was the defense. The Bulls scored 61 points in the second half. And 26 in the first quarter (that's 87 points for 3 quarters). Doug Collins said it well at the end of the game....the Bulls lost because of Scott Skiles lineup combinations in the second quarter. As for getting torched by Ben Gordon....well, there is something wrong with that, and it's the fact that 4 other Bulls players were on the court. Make someone else score. For almost the entire last 7 minutes, Ben Wallace of all people was on the floor. Double team Gordon, rotate until Wallace is left open, foul. Heck, with the inbounding problems at the end, I was just hoping the inbounder would throw the ball towards Big Ben and then to just quickly foul him every time....probably would have worked better.
whats padgett's overall +/- per game? I think if novak should be ahead of padgett in the rotation. or at least give him a chance then put padgett in if novak plays crap
