[rquoter]“Americans must be clear that Iraq could be even bloodier and more chaotic after Americans leave. There could be reprisals against those who worked with American forces, further ethnic cleansing, even genocide. Potentially destabilizing refugee flows could hit Jordan and Syria. Iran and Turkey could be tempted to make power grabs. Perhaps most important, the invasion has created a new stronghold from which terrorist activity could proliferate.” -- NY Times, 7-8-2007[/rquoter] [rquoter]"We heard that argument over and over again about the bloodbath that would engulf the entire Southeast Asia, and it didn't happen." -- John Kerry, 7-20-2007[/rquoter] [rquoter]"Well, look, if that's the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now--where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife--which we haven't done...We would be deploying unilaterally and occupying the Sudan, which we haven't done. Those of us who care about Darfur don't think it would be a good idea." -- Barak Obama, 7-20-2007 [/rquoter] Now, I don't claim to be an "A" student, but let's look at History [rquoter]To corroborate the experiences of refugees now living in Orange County, the Register interviewed dozens of former inmates and their families, both in the United States and Vietnam; analyzed hundreds of pages of documents, including testimony from more than 800 individuals sent to jail; and interviewed Southeast Asian scholars. The review found: * An estimated 1 million people were imprisoned without formal charges or trials. * 165,000 people died in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam's re-education camps, according to published academic studies in the United States and Europe. * Thousands were abused or tortured: their hands and legs shackled in painful positions for months, their skin slashed by bamboo canes studded with thorns, their veins injected with poisonous chemicals, their spirits broken with stories about relatives being killed. * Prisoners were incarcerated for as long as 17 years, according to the U.S. Department of State, with most terms ranging from three to 10 years. * At least 150 re-education prisons were built after Saigon fell 26 years ago. * One in three South Vietnamese families had a relative in a re-education camp.[/rquoter] but I'm trying to be [rquoter] When the Khmer Rouge victoriously entered Phnom Penh 30 years ago, many people greeted the rebels with a cautious optimism, weary from five years of civil war that had torn apart their lives and killed hundreds of thousands of Cambodians. . . . During the nearly four years following that day--April 17, 1975--Cambodia was radically transformed. . . . Everyday freedoms were abolished. Buddhism and other forms of religious worship were banned. Money, markets, and media disappeared. Travel, public gatherings, and communication were restricted. Contact with the outside world vanished. And the state set out to control what people ate and did each day, whom they married, how they spoke, what they thought, and who would live and die. "To keep you is no gain," the Khmer Rouge warned, "To destroy you is no loss." In the end, more than 1.7 million of Cambodia's 8 million inhabitants perished from disease, starvation, overwork, or outright execution in a notorious genocide. [/rquoter] what ever one might think about the how, the why, the culpability of Bush, or the the rightousness of that cause to which he's committed us, we're there now, and we have a responsibility to the Iraqi people, and the people of the entire middle east, to stay unitl we finish the job. [rquoter]"The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation..."[/rquoter]
You're not much of a student of even your own history, bassmaster -- INTERMISSION -- 2005 - Basso throws a curve: So which basso is it today - is it hte "Vietnam is a good analogue" basso or the "Vietnam is a bad analogue basso? Or is it even basso - is this your own post or one that you stole from a blog and tried to attribute it to yourself? Perhaps that can be your out?
The reason I disagree with basso here is that regardless of when we leave (be it in 2 months or in 20 years), the result will be the same. There will be a civil war and a struggle for power. The only thing we are doing is delaying the resolution of this...and getting American soldiers killed in the process. What I am not hearing is anything that we are getting done there. There have been no news stories about missions accomplished. All I can tell is that we are there and getting shot.
How does any of this refute that civil war is inevitable and that we are perpetuating the process, and thus the uncertainty?
it doesn't necessarily, it's just a more direct, on-site, unbiased, unvarnished look at what's happening in iraq. you can for your own opinions from there and other similar effots.
We're damned if we do and damned if we don't in Vietraq. Personally, I'd rather see them kill each other with our troops over here than with our troops over there. It's a goddamned vanity war, and it was unneccessary.
basso's getting better. This time he just copied the structure of the post and the citations, but didn't actually copy, paste, and slightly revise the blog author's own words- Jesus basso, why don't just give credit to the wingnuts you steal this stuff from. Is is it really that hard to post a link?
Wow this is a case of Life imitating Life. bassmaster we know you love James Taranto, so please don't steal his work, it makes the little Tarantulas go hungry.
It really is amazing. Just like Bush, even when caught red handed and flat out busted basso is completely incapable of admitting wrongdoing. It would be one thing if the insanely wrongheaded junk he posted here was his own. To think that he finds sufficient worth in this junk to actually plagiarize it is beyond comprehension.
Except the link to the orginal blog that you ripped off for your citations and the structure of your post- http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110010372 Claiming other people's research (work product) as your own, is almost as bad as straight up claiming their words as your own. Or are you going to claim that you never read Taranto's piece and the similarities are purely coincidental?
please- there's nothing wrong with the post- again, it's fully quoted, annotated, linked. please crawl back in your cave.
if you have something substantive to add to the content of the post, then please do. otherwise, stay the **** out of the thread.
basso no one takes you seriously anymore. sam has already pointed out, in an effort to squash criticism of the war in its beginning stages you shot down any comparisons of vietnam. now you want to compare the war to vietnam, in order to squash criticism. you have no credibility on the subject, regardless of proper citations of quotes or not.
