Defending P&R, Yao Stay Home

criticizing JVG's defensive scheme is always hard because he did such a good job.

but, at the end of the day, never good enough, and especially against good PG/PF combo's, the Rockets always got burned. Like Utah, Phoenix, San Antonio, etc.

We'll have to see how this plays out. The thing about Yao cheap fouls, getting too far out from the basket, using too much energy chasing the little guys around obviously makes sense.

I'm personally a fan of the slide through approach, where the defender of the offensive player setting the pick leaves enough room for his teammate to slide through on defense. The problem with this, of course, is the guard can now stand back there and shoot the relatively open jumper...and again, a good guard will burn you on this. But, I think there is a tendency, even with good shooting guards/point guards, to not pull up everytime but try and get to the basket. Depends on the offensive player, obviously - Chauncy has no fear pulling up for the 3 whereas Tony Parker never will.

Also, at full speed, it isn't always easy to execute the slide through defense approach. So unless Yao is stepping out to cut off the defender, you are now down to either executing rotation defense as a third defender rotates to cut off potential drive by the guard, or Yao not necessarily stepping out, but clearly cutting off the lane to an extent by staying a few feet back and watching for his guy cutting to the basket and simultaneously acting as a mental block for the offensive guard to not try and drive the lane.

Again, I'll wait and see on actual execution. Should mean more outside jumpers are forced, you'd think. I think more than anything, this helps Yao conserve fouls and energy for the offensive end, which is a good thing.

 

good move, on the whole this improves the team alot more than yao stepping out trying to slow down the p and r

 

IT IS ABOUT FRICKEN TIME !!!

Some of us were screaming at the TV at Yao trying to defend the pick and roll, he is never going to be fast enough.

Late in the Utah games, it was Boozer and Williams in the Pick and roll over and over again and Yao would get beat at the elbow or on the roll.....glad to hear we are going at it in a different manner.

Watch his rebounding numbers soar as well because he gets to stay closer to the rim.

I am so glad we have a coach who recognizes a players strengths AND their weaknesses and schemes around them.

I am PYSCHED !!!

DD

 

Wait and see. Adelman's teams have never been defensive stalwarts while JVG's have always been tough.

On the flipside, Adelman is much more like to form his gameplans around the team's strengths and weaknesses, while JVG was completely inflexible in his vision of how to play the game. Yao has very clear limitations and very obvious advantages. It would not be surprising to me if we saw more utilization of zones starting this year. We have a deep enough rotation and athletic enough players to go that way, and it reduces the burden on Yao to stay with the Amare's of the world. Still, it takes a lot of discipline and desire to play well in a zone, and it's just not popular in the NBA. One or two 'cut the check' types on the floor and it's a disaster.

Evan

 

No team exclusively defends the PnR one way. A lot defends on the offensive players involved, floor positioning, and game situations.

That being said, during the Utah series last year, Yao rarely showed on PnR and stayed back a lot...and in my honest opinion, that burned the Rockets big time.

JVG sacrificed his own strategies to conserve Yao's energy b/c the team was too week offensively without Yao. It's a cyclical thing, but ultimately the fault of JVG and the fault of the front office fore having a lack of scoring talent.

There is a time to stay back, and time to play halfway, and yes, there are plenty of times where Yao SHOULD show hard on the PnR trap.

For those of you who know my post history, my opinion is backed up by hundreds of hours of game tape analysis.

 

the problem with zone is that the best zones really have that guy in the middle who is tall but still fast and quick...which doesn't necessarily describe Yao. It does describe KG, which is why Flip ran so much zone.

But I think zone can and should be run at times.

I tend to agree with Kim. No team should defend the P&R exclusively one way. It depends on who your playing. But you should have a primary way of defending it. Having one primary way helps in that there is less opportunity for the entire team defense as a whole to get mixed up with what defense is being run. But where Tony Parker or Deron Williams (both great mid-range guys, not exactly 3 point shooters) obviously have a different offensive mindset than Steve Nash or Chauncy, your P&R defense might be different.

 

Think about the Yao and McGrady P&R. When McGrady comes off the screen, how does he sometimes get an open jumper at the top of the key? It's because the other big is "staying at home" and not showing on the pick, and McGrady's defender couldn't get over the screen fast enough.

This is the cost of having Yao stay at home. You really can't stop the P&R properly executed, you'll just put yourself at risk for different things. Hopefully letting Yao stay in the paint and defending the middle is worth the price of surrendering open jumpers off screens.

 

Sometimes, Yao and Hayes should switch, let Hayes /Scola gets out, and Yao stays in, but it needs good timing to do this. I saw Shaq doing this in Lakes before.

 

it's time for Yao to flop era

 

without injuries hopefuly

 

Makes perfect sense!
This is where I like Adelman a lot - he is pragmatic (vs. JVG's dogmatic). Adelman analyzes what works and doesn't work and makes adjustment. JVG stays on his dogmatic principles until the end.

Four things I like about this move:

- Reduce cheap fouls (discussed already)

- Use Yao's strength more and minimize his weakness - utilize Yao's size on the inside and minimize his need to move around

- A half-step towards zone defense, which FIBA teams like to use against USA team and is often very effective. BTW, zone defense is a better scheme against P&R in general anyway, if done right (i.e., can work around the NBA rule that is against pure zone defense, such as 3-second violation, etc.), and does not allow for too big of a mismatch after the roll.

- Reduce wear and tear on Yao's body (and toes) for moving around back and forth too much. Note that it hurts the body more to have jerky motion to chase a smaller guy than to just jog/run across the court.

 

While I'm pretty basketball naive to know other teams well enough, but how many teams successfully run a zone defense the majority of the time?

Jeff wasn't a zone runner, so I hope we can retain some of that defensive tenacity while overhauling the offense.

 

Nothing is related to this thread, but it is an interest infomation about the man rotation in the RA system. Just read from Chron.com, Jon said that RA will use 9-10 man rotation, which is quite good news for the Rockets and his players. To me, a short man rotation team is a difficult to win a big in the today NBA.

"Question: Adelman will not use 9-10 man rotation. I can see this coming from fans but Jonathan you should know better that Adelman never liked to play too many guys. When he was with the Kings, he practically only used 6 guys.

AnswerHe should no better, too. He said today he envisions a nine- or 10-man rotation. Now that I think about, he said something along those lines last week, too. I'll have him check with you next time. -- Jonathan)

Posted by: poptarts. at October 8, 2007 03:37 PM"

 

Yep, Yep, Yep.


Keep him on the floor burning up the nets and creating foul trouble havoc on the opponents as he wipes out 3 bigs with fouls, getting us in the bonus and running our offensive efficiency through the roof.

I'd much rather have those guys stepping back for jumpers instead of driving around him anyway, putting him in position for foul calls against, wearing down his stamina, and putting us in bad position to rebound and break.

Everything will work better with Yao down in the paint, more boards, more breakouts, not as many fouls against, and more stamina from Yao in the 4th, when the opponent is trying to ride 3 bigs with 5 fouls apiece to the finish defending against Yao.

 

I think Yao's blocks will go up.

 

Argh....is anyone reading what I wrote?!?

Jeebus, in the playoffs last year, Yao RARELY came out to the perimeter to defend. He stayed back 9 times out of 10...and that was a bad thing. JVG changed his strategy from showing hard to staying back b/c imo, he needed Yao at 100% offensive energy on the floor for big minutes. JVG sacrificed his own defensive principles.

Don't you guys remember the series at all. Williams and Boozer destroyed the Rockets on the PnR, and Yao was not on the perimeter.

Let me illustrate what usually happened:


Staying Back:

The first two boxes are the staying back strategy that many here absolutely love, and JVG mostly used during the Utah series, and I kind of hate it most of the time...not saying it shouldn't be used at all...but definitely not most of the time.

What happens is this. Boozer sets a successful pick up top on Rafer, freeing Deron Williams at the key area. Yao slowly moves from the left block to the paint waiting to stop any Deron Williams penetration.

Here's the problem: Deron Williams unguarded at the top of the key (b/c Rafer is behind him after the pick) is just way too dangerous imo. It's essentially 2 on 1 basketball w/ Deron and Boozer vs Yao, and Yao is in a usesless position.

Deron can:
1) drive to the hole for a layup attempt
2) pull up for a short jumper or floater
3) make a deep angled pass to a cutting Boozer

Out of those possibilities, only if Deron stupidly drives into Yao, will the defense work most of the time. Deron did do that a hand full of times in the series, and Yao altered or blocked Deron.

In possibilities 2) and 3), Deron gets a wide open close shot b/c Yao is not quick enough to push out, or Boozer gets a clean look inside. 3) was the biggest killer b/c of the angle of the pass. By the time Boozer catches the ball, he's already on a full head of steam in the paint. Yao is left on an island trying to guard Deron penetrating and Boozer cutting. There is not enough time for Hayes to rotate from the weak side for help.

Showing Hard

In the bottom two boxes is the illustration of showing hard, and why it works against the Jazz most of the time. When Yao shows hard to trap Derron it takes away Deron's drive scenario and it takes away the pull up jumper/floater option. The only thing left for Deron to do is back it out or make a pass to a cutting Boozer. Here's the thing. A pass to a cutting Boozer in this case has a much shallower angle than in the 1st scenario. That's because Yao is showing up front and cutting off the deep pass angle. That means Boozer is catching the ball of the left side of the floor without a head of steam already built up. Which means Hayes has more time to make the rotation.

The difference is like a second. But in that second means the world in defending the pick and roll. The show hard, trap, and rotate technique is masterfully taught by JVG. It shouldn't be used 100% of the time, but it is arguably the best way to defend the PnR vs Utah.

Boozer shooting stats from the left side are 35%, 43% and 40%...total average of around 40%. His shooting from in the paint is a killer 66%!!!!!!!

The only logical reason why JVG changed his D and gave into letting Utah killing the Rockets w/ Pick and Roll was the JVG was scared of having a tired Yao. JVG was too scared to take him out of the game b/c he knew how inept the offense was. The ineptitude of offense w/o Yao, plus fear, was the downfall of JVG. He holds a huge amount of responsibility in the Rockets failures especially since he sold himself out by sacrificing his own defensive principles. The front office is to blame too for having such a crappy group of talent w/no one able to get their own shot other than Yao and T-Mac.