Ok, I know the surreal post name, but I wanted to put my take on the popeye issue in a new thread for the purposes of clarification and after hearing all those damn numbers at the SA meeting yesterday, my head is feeling surreal. Here are some posts and my responses: For all intents in purposes, you should be right, however, rumors can do more than just cause people to speculate. While the concern over the NBA and the Rockets is part of the issue, the bigger issue is how it effects cc.net. The last thing we want to do is piss off the very people we are trying to promote. How exactly do you think we get access to workouts, training camps, etc.? We have to go through the same channels as any media outlet which means being in direct contact with the media. As for them coming to this site. I know for a fact that they visit here and Save Our Rockets every day and not just because they tell us. There are fairly easy ways to track it and I keep track of SOR and know they visit there all the time (4 times yesterday alone). While we aren't trying to hype ourselves that way, it is important to note that we ARE considered the media by the Rockets and speak to them on a regular basis. We can't really take credit for that, however, because the popularity of this site has as much to do with the overwhelming popularity of this BBS as it does Clutch's programming and reporting. I think YOU should give yourselves MORE credit rather than less. We all deserve it! Actually, rumors were how the NBA came down on Miami for the Alonzo Mourning/Juwan Howard fiasco, so don't dismiss them so quickly. As for the Rockets deserving to get busted, that isn't for me or anyone to say. However, we are the one's left vulnerable, not the Rockets. They can deal with fines, etc, but we don't have their resources. And, if the NBA were to come down on the Rockets for a post on our BBS, we would be next in line. In other words, don't ever wake a sleeping giant! In this case, if we allow a rumor to go without a response of any kind, we leave ourselves open to all kinds of problems that not only include legal problems, but not being able to keep our good standing with the organization that helps us get info in the first place! I'm not even sure where to start but I'll take them one at a time. Popeye has always been a valuable commodity on the BBS, but if he leaves, someone will take his place. Now, more than ever, there are important people and people who have good information out there lurking. Maybe popeye's self-imposed exile will give someone else a chance to step up. Change is a good thing. As I said in my post above, the NBA takes these things seriously. None of us pretend to like it, but it is the truth. If this weren't the case, we NEVER would have heard about any of this in the past, which we have, from the Rockets, themselves. We don't make the rules, we just try to follow them as best as possible. Posting "Rudy sucks" is an opinion. Everyone is allowed that. Saying, "Mobley has an agreement with the Rockets" is not an opinion. It is making a statement of fact in the mind of the poster. That would be like the Chronicle running a story that came from a rumor. If they do it, they better make damn sure their sourcing is good and that they won't suffer the consequences of their story whcih could range from a libel suit to just being "cut off" from the organization. In many ways, we are similar to them. The main difference is we let the opinions of posters drive the content of areas of the site like the BBS. We get our sourcing from you. Because we don't know many of you outside the board, trust becomes a very big issue. With popeye, we trust his hunches. If we didn't we wouldn't be concerned over his "rumors" and neither would the Rockets. As for the BBS being like Russia or China, give me a freakin' break! No one ever said this was a place where free speech ruled. Think about it this way. If you owned a business and someone associated with your business if not an actual employee began to spread rumors that could be potentially damaging to your clients. What would you do? Would you risk it and say, "To hell with them if they can't take a joke!" If you love your business as much as we love cc.net, you protect it. Period. If that means that "free speech" must be censored occassionally to protect the greater good, so be it. If it were a choice between keeping your business or the thing you love the most and allowing someone to spread rumors for the sake of free speech, what would you do? We do everything possible to balance opinion vs. fact and myth vs. reality and we do it all for FREE! The only benefit we get out of this is being able to report on something we love and meet a lot of cool people on this BBS. We do it out of love for the game and the team. We would never do anything to jeopardize this site or its visitors. If that is upsetting to some, that is the price we have to pay. We hope everyone understands and we respect and appreciate your opinions on the matter. Now, can we please get back to talking about the draft?!!! ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Man, I wish I was going today. Unfortunatley, I am trying to make a living today because yesterday I spent all day in meetings for something. I can't quite remember what it was - it all just seems like a blur at this point. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
I was wondering about the whole story with Popeye as well. The only things I could think of is that he mistakingly told the name of his source or his source found out that he was posting all this classified information in these boards.
NIKE...do the math. I can cover that ground in 5 days easy. But you have to give me reasons to post. My posting is controlled by the ebb of flow of this board. I am drifting...looking for a current Didn't George Bush get in trouble for debunking broccoli? And he was President. Watch it Jeff, someone could take your place! bwahahahahaha ------------------- heycity.net "Loud, Proud, and Original with 35% More Flash"
I hear you, Jeff, but from my angle, best interests of the Rox and CC.net's BBS are at odds here. I think the CC.net BBS lost out on this one, and it seems like a precedent is being set that I wish - and I understand it is tricky - was not. Dont give any scoops that you think might hurt the Rockets, because people are watching and they can not know that we know or else we will have to have Matt Bullard on the team again. Oh well, I guess that is what happens when you get big. I personally value the discussion here more than the interviews, etc. I mean, I get all of this, but I am sorry to see it. There is a reason I do not read the Chronicle, and I hate to see the 'mainstream media' rules start applying to a friggin BBS, that's all. And no, Popeye will not be replaced, because apparently he can't be. [pout, brood, sulk, whine] CBFC [/pout, brood, sulk, whine] ------------------ [This message has been edited by CBrownFanClub (edited June 01, 2000).]
I doubt if Popeye will be replaced either, just because it is now proven that posting information can get you in trouble or at least get your hand slapped, or more than likely get your source in trouble. I loved having Popeye's insights into the organization more than his trade possibilites. It seemed like at times the organization may have intentionally leaked possible rumors for a response. There were a few times during the season that Popeye referred to a future trade which never occurred. I now wonder if the "leak" was given the information on purpose to get feedback from this board and other sources. Popeye did give us some great information, but at times it seemed liked his possible trades, were just that. Not that Popeye wasn't credible but I think the Roxs were looking for feedback. Then again maybe they were just looking for the leak in the 1st place. Then again his information was still much better than most of ours! Thanks for the info Popeye, you will be missed! ------------------
Perhaps he will be replaced because he is merely a pseudonymn for one of the admins so that they may post sensitive material without being directly held responsible. Merely an alter-ego that will be replaced by another............hmmmmm. Just an idea. ------------------
I understand how you want to protect your sources, however, a good journalist does not have to walk on egg shells around the people or organization he/she is covering. If it is the truth, and I am assuming that Popeye is telling the truth, then the Rocket organization needs to keep their mouths shut about it. Especially if it is a rules violation. Taking the angle that we are the press, then the Rockets would have to understand that the press generally likes to scoop a story. You have to choose, do you want to be chummy and friends, or do you want to earn their respect as REAL press? They will not DRY up and go away, because you said something BAD about the organization. They realize that this is a fan based site, and we are all rabid Rocket supporters. We all want what is best for OUR team. Let me put it this way, do you think if Feigen went with this story that the Rockets would ignore his paper from now on...PUUUHHHLLLEEEEEEAAAASSSEEEE !!! They are in the business of selling tickets, any press is good for them. I come from a sports broadcasting background, and if it were not for the piddly wages starting out, I would still be doing it. Many times you have to get the story out, and if you step on some toes....too bad. The Truth is the truth, and if you have sources....think before you post. DaDakota PS. Many times people have posted erroneous info about trades etc, and it came back as BS, one can only gather that Popeye must have been right or there would not be such an uproar. ------------------
Jeff, I wasn't going to reply, but I just hate the saying, "Change is good." If you are healthy then your body changes and you get sick is that good? No. If you are employed at a job you love and you get fired, is that good? No. Change for the worse is not good. Change just for the sake of change is more often than not, not good either. What I don't get is why wasn't popeye repremanded or whatever all the other times that his trade rumors fell through? Popeye has been right, and popeye has been wrong. But, nothing has been blown up the way this has. I understand that he was talking about something that may involve the Rockets breaking league rules, but who's to say he's right? When popeye posted that Mobley will be a Rocket next year, wasn't that the same as saying that he feels that the Rockets will not let Cuttino leave, because they are willing to do what ever it takes to keep him? It's sorta like at work and someone asks you to do something and you say, "It's done." It's not really done, it's just that you will not let anything stop you from doing it. --------------------------------- "Stoudamire is a Rocket..."
Maybe I am wrong here, but I thought the saying "change is good" did not refer to the fact that just because something changes, good must follow, but rather, if something changes, it is up to you to take that change and put a positive spin on it and make it good. Nobody likes to lose their health for example, but in doing so one might conjure up good memories or be inspired to do something when/if they get healthy again that they wouldnt have done before. Change isn't necessarily good, but it ALWAYS can be. ------------------ Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!
DREAMer: Regarding change (although this sounds more like a Hangout thread), I do not share your belief that change is bad. I do not believe that change is EVER for the worse. It just is. If you get sick, it is your body's way of telling you something - slow down, eat better, pay attention, whatever. Getting fired at a job you love could be the greatest thing that ever happened to you. As JayZ said, it is up to YOU. As for popeye, this discussion is really getting outrageous. He wasn't reprimanded. We just said that his post could get us in hot water. A while back, the same thing happened with popeye, so he knows the drill. We aren't afraid of anyone, but it is better to err on the side of caution. Jonathon Fegien would NEVER post a rumor like this if he thought it would get the Rockets in trouble not because he is scared of the Rockets but out of respect for the organization. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Was trading Elie and Willis for Stoudamire illegal? ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Hmmmm....I get your point. Now ask yourself, what would you do if you were a reporter? Would you break the story, or keep it under wraps? Is it Watergate, Irangate, or Rocketgate? You be the judge ! Ah ethics....the good ole days of arguing ethics... DaDakota PS. I would not report it, if I knew it, cause I WANT THE ROCKETS TO WIN DANGIT !!! ------------------
Are you guys still arguing about this? Didn't I say let's get on with the draft! ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Jeff: you sure you want that. Here's another topic to ponder- Which is worse, popeye discussion on moral value, or speculation over how the Rockets are going to move in to get Swift? ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Jeff, It is a "Hangout" discussion, but I just wanted to clarify what I said. CHANGE FOR THE WORSE IS BAD. Example: If you are alive, then die, then go to Hell for all eternity, THAT change is BAD. (Try to turn that one around) CHANGE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE IS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, ALSO BAD. Not all change is bad. I never meant to imply that. Just that people often hide behind that joyful optimistic mystical saying of, "Change is good." I've heard that said way too many times, where in the end that "change" in question turned out NOT to be good, but to be bad. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
you said they checked SOR 4 times yesterday i'm guessing you mean the rockets front office because i doubt you could track it to a players house but could track it to rockets offices. that is awesome.....it's ok if you can't say but is there a good chance you have received e-mails from players about your effort to keep the team because i remmeber early on they said that players had heard about the site and i'm sure some visited it ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be"
so what are the new rules....i know we can't say we know something for a fact but can we talk about possible free agent pickups and possible trades as long as we dont claim to know the rockets are working on them etc? ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be"
