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Dead Marine's father ordered to pay protesters' legal costs

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DFWRocket, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    I am so disgusted by the Westboro Baptist Church..every time they do something, it seems to be worse than the last time. I feel sorry for this dad who now has to pay the legal fees for the Church because he lost his lawsuit against them. Please note: THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF CHRISTIANS. They are a crazy fringe group like Muslim Jihadists.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T2


    U.S. Supreme Court
    Fred Phelps
    Armed Forces
    (CNN) -- The father of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church says an order to pay the protesters' legal costs in a civil claim is nothing less than a "slap in the face."

    "By the court making this decision, they're not only telling me that they're taking their side, but I have to pay them money to do this to more soldiers and their families," said Albert Snyder, whose son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, was killed in action in Iraq in 2006.

    Members of the fundamentalist church based in Topeka, Kansas, appeared outside Snyder's funeral in 2006 in Westminster, Maryland, carrying signs reading "You're going to hell," "God hates you" and "Thank God for dead soldiers."

    Among the teachings of the church, which was founded in 1955 by pastor Fred Phelps, is the belief that God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events such as soldiers' deaths.

    Margie Phelps, the daughter of Fred Phelps and the attorney representing the church in its appeals, also said the money that the church receives from Snyder will be used to finance demonstrations. But she also said that the order was a consequence of his decision to sue the church over the demonstration.

    "Mr. Snyder and his attorneys have engaged the legal system; there are some rules to that legal engagement," said Phelps, a member of Westboro who says she has participated in more than 150 protests of military funerals.

    "They wanted to shut down the picketing so now they're going to finance it," she said.

    The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday ordered that Snyder pay more than $16,000 in costs requested by Westboro for copies of motions, briefs and appendices, according to court documents.

    In a motion filed in October, Snyder's lawyer, who is representing him for free, asked the court to dismiss the bill of costs, or, alternatively, reduce the 50-cent fee per page or charge Snyder only for copies that were necessary to make their arguments on appeal.

    "We objected based upon ability to pay and the fairness of the situation," Sean Summers said.

    The mostly pro-forma ruling is the latest chapter in an ongoing legal saga that pits privacy rights of grieving families against the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message.

    Snyder's family sued the church and went to trial in 2007 alleging privacy invasion, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy. A jury awarded the family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages, which were reduced to $5 million.

    Westboro in 2008 appealed the case to the 4th District, which reversed the judgments a year later, siding with the church's claims that its First Amendment rights had been violated.

    "The protest was confined to a public area under supervision and regulation of local law enforcement and did not disrupt the church service," the circuit court opinion said. "Although reasonable people may disagree about the appropriateness of the Phelps' protest, this conduct simply does not satisfy the heavy burden required for the tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress under Maryland law."

    The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case to address issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased.

    The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.

    Both Phelps and Snyder's attorney said they were surprised that the 4th District chose to weigh in on the issue of legal costs when they could have waited until after the Supreme Court hearing.

    Phelps believes the ruling bodes well for her side.

    "It is a good harbinger of the fact that the Supreme Court will remind this nation that you don't have mob rule. The fact that so many people hate these words does not mean you can silence or penalize them. That's supposed to be the great liberty that we congratulate ourselves on protecting in this nation. We strut all around the world forcing people to give all the liberties we supposedly have," she said.

    Phelps anticipated that a Supreme Court ruling in the church's favor would be unpopular, but she said Westboro's members viewed the potential outcome in Biblical terms.

    "When the Supreme Court unanimously upholds the 4th Circuit, it's going to put this country in a rage, and we will be expelled," she said. "But whenever it was time for an epic event in the Bible, the thing that happened right before is the prophets were removed from the land, and that's what's going to happen to us. ... We're going to sprint to the end of this race."

    Snyder claims he is unable to pay any legal costs in the case and is attempting to raise funds on his son's site, http://www.matthewsnyder.org/. He is equally optimistic that he will prevail before the Supreme Court.

    "The American people keep my spirits lifted a lot and give me hope. I think most of the country is on my side on this issue," he said. "Too many people have died to protect our rights and freedoms to have them degraded and spit upon like this church does."
     
  2. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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  3. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    Speaking as a Southern Baptist, these people do not represent my denomination. I can't find any support for them in the Southern Baptist Association. I hope the Supreme Court reverses the appellate court and gives the dead soldier's father every penny he requested, including the deed to their churchhouse.
     
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    This is what homophobia and extreme right-wing mentality does.

    You look at the tea-party - their anti-gov't, racist, and homophobic themes, and you can see where it will play out - i bet that all of these guys in this crazy church belong to the tea party.
     
  5. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    You have to allow for free speech.

    However what they did was terrible.
    I think the jury awarded the dad like 11mil.
     
  6. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    So you're cool with free speech until you are offended?
     
  7. g1184

    g1184 Member

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    this is probably the most futile protest i have heard about. if there's anywhere that people will exhibit the LEAST propensity to listen to your message, it's at their son's funeral.

    what assholes.
     
  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I would think the Supreme Court will uphold the right of the church to say what they want. I don't know what right to privacy you have at a public venue.
     
  9. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    Where are the lines between hate speech, incitement to violence and free speech? If you walk up to a person unknown to you and start using racist or homosexual slurs, is that hate speech or is it incitement to violence or is that free speech?

    Violating the decorum of a funeral with hateful signs and taunts, to me, is the very same type of action. Free speech must be used with some discretion. Otherwise, shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater must be considered free speech and therefore a lawful action.
     
  10. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    As a tea party advocate, read my posts -- #3 and #9.
     
  11. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Shouting "fire" in a theater is bad as it has a very capability of directly harming others. As reprehensible as the Westboro ****ers are, they are not directly harming others and from my understanding, follow the proper laws and permits in getting permission to rally. Consequently, they have the right to do their actions in the name of free speech,
     
  12. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Contributing Member

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    Wow. I never thought I'd say this, but O'Reilly just earned a large measure of respect in my eyes. That's a great thing for him to do.
     
  13. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Actually, it's probably the most effective time and place to have a protest. Under what other circumstances would a protest that probably involved at most a hundred people become a national headline? It's despicable, but effective.
     
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    I'm not a religious man, but if there is a hell, a very special lake of fire awaits for each and every individual of this so-called church.

    That goes for every other person who has bastardized the tenets of their religion at the expense of others.
     
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    This church must use the same PR firm as PETA!
     
  16. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    What the church is doing is obviously wrong, but I don't know what they can do about it because it is within their legal right. I'm still not sure I wouldn't go punch one of them right in the face.
     
  17. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    I wish the media would just put a blackout on these stories. Then the Hells Angels could go beat the **** out of them and there would be no journalists present.

    Right to Protest, my ass... :eek:
     
  18. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    I know you can't imagine it, but try. Your child has just died (I assume you would be grieving), and somebody comes to the funeral gloating over your child's death and taunts you, would you not feel that is incitement to violence?

    Incitement to violence is a crime.
     
  19. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    hey, we agree!
     
  20. BrotherFish

    BrotherFish Contributing Member

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    So, its ok to say "YOU LIE!" to the President at the State of the Union and shout "BABY KILLER" in the House?

    How about "FIRE" in a movie theater?

    It's all just "FREE" speech right? :rolleyes:

    There is a time and a place to voice descent AND its not at a funeral of a U.S. Soldier! :mad:
     

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