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David Cameron: Britain's EU Referendum to be held June 23

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    There has long been skepticism in Britain and elsewhere about whether the British referendum on continuing their membership in the EU would ever be held. Many if not most believed that this was just a blatantly dishonest campaign ploy by Conservative Party PM David Cameron.

    Today David Cameron announced the date of the referendum will be June 23, 2016, which is 123 days from today. This is a big F'ing deal, to quote our illustrious Vice President Joe Biden.

    Here is a very insightful article on where the politics of all this currently stands in the UK:

    Against all odds, David Cameron has recently negotiated a deal with the EU granting Britain special permissions and waivers designed to help the "Yes" camp win this referendum and keep Britain in the EU. Cameron did not get all that he wanted from the EU, but he did apparently get far more than anyone expected.

    Now, despite the fact that much of his party is in favor of leaving the EU, David Cameron himself is leading the campaign to stay in. In a poll released today, the results are as follows:

    36% - "No" (in favor of leaving)
    34% - "Yes" (in favor of staying)
    23% - Undecided

    If they leave, Britain will be the first to leave the EU, and probably not the last. It could and very possibly will be the beginning of the end for the EU.

    If they stay, Britain will be increasingly overrun by immigrants from all over the world, raising real problems for national security and undermining job security and wages for British citizens. It will result in Britain increasingly be absorbed into the EU, effectively abdicating whatever national identity it historically has had.

    Personally, I see the allure of a close economic partnership between Britain and the EU. However, with their close proximity and long history, they are virtually certain to have that regardless. The EU is an economic wreck. The political correctness agenda as it has been applied to immigration policy is tearing Britain and the rest of Europe apart at the seams.

    It is a tough call either way, but this current arrangement is not sustainable. Britain needs to exit the EU.
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    How is immigration tearing Britain apart?

    What, in your opinion, are the befits of a liberal immigration policy? Even as a critic, you must be able to envision benefits.

    Do you really think Germany, for example, doesn't have the political power to freeze immigration if it wanted to?

    Why did Europe open its doors to immigration so heavily in the last several decades?
     
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Nobody look at Japan. Political correctness has left it overrun with a negative population growth rate, and negative interest rates.

    People who are nativists, I always imagine, must not know how they get their cheap goods and who really builds the innovations that allows them to live their lives. The world is getting better all around them, despite them I suppose.
     
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    That's the thing, I have no problem discussing the negatives but it's pretty absurd that you would look at immigration and not realize a single positive thing about it. Is it hard to acknowledge how beneficial it is to people who have large manufacturing operations for immigrants to come in and do those jobs for less than anyone else? Is it reasonable to think these governments are accepting immigration to pander to a weak weak humanitarian subset of the population who are typically ignored?

    Why are all these powerful countries accepting immigration so routinely? They are the least likely in the world to be forced into that position, yet they take the most immigrants.
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Well, this is going to be interesting. Boris Johnson, who is simultaneously the Mayor of London, a Member of Parliament (MP) and a member of David Cameron's Conservative Party, has come out in favor of the "Leave" campaign.

    For those who do not follow British politics, this Boris Johnson is quite a character. Many in the UK see him as high on the short list of possible successors to David Cameron in 2020, when his current term ends. Cameron has pledged not to seek a third term, although it is currently hard to imagine the UK ever having a PM that is more on his game than David Cameron, who is leading the "Remain" campaign, currently is right now.

    Nevertheless, the top supporters of "Leave," including Boris Johnson and Michael Gove of the Conservative Party, and Nigel Farage of UKIP, are very popular, extremely influential, and in the case of Johnson and Farage, approximately as skilled at playing the media as Donald Trump here in the US.

    In any case, here is the article that Boris Johnson wrote explaining himself this last weekend in the London Telegraph. It is long, about 2,000 words, but it is in my opinion a 'must read' for anyone who is interested in following this campaign at all closely. Johnson presents an argument for leaving that is powerfully persuasive and that will have a great deal of influence with the people of the UK. I have clipped a few sentences here and there that I thought were especially important below:

     
  6. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    I don't know a whole lot about Boris Johnson but the bits I've read I liked. I think he's pretty firmly anti-war and (obviously) anti-torture.

    And as someone who is 6'4" I appreciate him taking short-man syndrome head on.

     
  7. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Yeah, you shouldn't look at Japan. Japan is just fine despite a stagnant population.
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The deal Cameron was able to get to stay in the EU is much better than many of his critics (and supporters of staying in the EU) thought he would be able to pull off. The UK had a "special" relationship within the EU already. Now that special relationship has gotten even better for the island nation, with much better terms. The deal takes Britain out of the integration of the various members into a "United Europe" and insures British sovereignty, regardless of what the other members decide to do. It separates the British financial system from the rest of the Euro Zone more than it is now. Britain is no longer expected to contribute to the bailouts of those EU members that have put themselves in a pickle, Greece being the most obvious example. New limits have been placed on the terms of immigration into the UK from the EU. It will not end immigration, and that's a plus in my opinion, but it puts that immigration on much more favorable terms for Britain than was the case before.

    Leaving the EU would be a major blow to the economy of the UK. Many of those for pulling out have a fantasy that the UK will be better off as a center of trade with the English speaking countries, mostly members of the Commonwealth, including India (where English is widely spoken by the educated), plus the United States. That the Commonwealth will be "renewed," with those members supposedly forgetting how they were royally screwed when Britain first joined the Common Market. Countries like Australia and New Zealand were hammered by the abrupt end of the "special relationship" with the mother country, losing preferential trade terms for their exports within the Commonwealth as the UK essentially dumped them for a Europe with a far larger market, offering them what they saw as a better deal for Britain.

    This deal is good news for Great Britain and for the rest of us who care about Europe.
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EU passport held by over 500 million people. Let's leave EU &amp; control our borders.<a href="https://t.co/k7Ik8YWS3v">https://t.co/k7Ik8YWS3v</a></p>&mdash; Nigel Farage (@Nigel_Farage) <a href="https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/701873786161737729">February 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Only way we can stop handing EU over £50 million every day, control our borders and make our own laws is to Leave EU<a href="https://t.co/QGJjmvbnGW">https://t.co/QGJjmvbnGW</a></p>&mdash; Nigel Farage (@Nigel_Farage) <a href="https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/701747162707693570">February 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ignore the scaremongering from the pro-EU establishment. Outside of the EU there is a world of opportunity.<a href="https://t.co/3uQf0S7Gxf">https://t.co/3uQf0S7Gxf</a></p>&mdash; Nigel Farage (@Nigel_Farage) <a href="https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/697038168919396354">February 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Nigel Farage weighs in before the EU parliament on Britain's upcoming referendum on EU membership.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sllcexlb8TY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    It appears that the deal that David Cameron negotiated is not legally binding and that the members of the EU parliament are pretty strongly opposed to approving it after the fact, if the British people do vote to remain. This will surely be a powerful point that could well undermine David Cameron's campaign to keep the UK in the EU.
     
  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    japan has been the opposite of being political correct

    it has intentionally excluded her invasion of her Asian neighbors, and all the atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers, in school textbooks.

    negative interest rate is the cumulative effect of a "protectionist" economy stuck in mud since the early 1990s
     
  12. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Just leave already.
     
  13. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Leave opens up massive lead in exclusive Brexit poll for The Independent <a href="https://t.co/ATC1OxCQTS">https://t.co/ATC1OxCQTS</a></p>&mdash; The Independent (@Independent) <a href="https://twitter.com/Independent/status/741528913956900870">June 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mOXQZIAwAAg?start=22" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The Bilderberger's are having their annual meeting this week and this is apparently one of their most serious concerns, as it will be a slap in the face to their globalist agenda.

    The Bilderburger's are the ultimate globalists. Globalism is of course represented here in this country by Barack Obama and his crew. Hillary Clinton will also carry that torch if she is elected, regardless of any lies she tells to the contrary prior to the election. Donald Trump - who has been a Democrat nearly all of his adult life - may also, as he is like Hillary such an epic liar that you really cannot trust a single word that comes out of his mouth.

    Anyway, people express concern about "nationalists" - people who are proud of their nations and want to protect and defend the people in them - but globalists are worse, as they want to see the ability to provide any such protection taken away, once and for all, for the benefit of a tiny group of elite leaders, such as the Bilderburgers.

    If the British vote to leave the EU, that would be a cold slap in the face to their plans, as the integration provided by the EU has been a huge success in their view. Who do these people in the UK think they are, voting their own interests and against the interests of their betters? Or even voting for that matter?
     
  15. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UTMxfAkxfQ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  16. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    So what?
     
  17. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    you've taken Econ 101, you tell me why those things are bad ;)
     
  18. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    *want to protect and defend certain people in them
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

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    What exactly do you mean by "political correctness" in that context?
     
  20. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Mojoman ->
    The context is that Mojoman can't help but cite political correctness as the mother of all ills.
     

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