One comment that's been repeated many times goes something like "David Andersen is a terrible rebounder because averaged only 4 a game" "David Andersen was only an 11/4 player in Europe so he must be non-rebounding scrub in the NBA." I hope to put the misunderstanding regarding David Andersen's rebounding numbers to rest. Here is the data set, based on draftexpress.com: David Andersen's stats over the past years, both basic and more advanced: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Andersen-5222/stats/ As reference, here is Lusi Scola's stats over the past years, including his Euroleague years: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luis-Scola-5184/stats/ Preliminary Comment: It really doesn't shouldn't need to be repeated, but "rebounds per game" is a meaningless stat when comparing the rebounding abilities of players unless we are talking about two guys who play comparable minutes with comparable number of possessions. Rebounds per minute, or rebounds per possession are better measurements than rebounds per game. 4 rebounds per game for a big when you play 15 mpg in the NBA would be great, when you play 20 would be generally mediocre, when you play 30 mpg would generally be terible. As such, I am going to look at more meaningful number of "rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted" and what % the team's total rebounds a player gathers. These, at the very least, controls for possession and/or rebound opportunities. Andersen vs. Scola I am picking Scola as a comparison because he was one guy who, like Andersen, has an extensive history in Europe, and one who no one would argue is a poor rebounder in the NBA. So... if Andersen's rebounding numbers in Europe stack up OK vs Scola's, it would seem reasonable not to worry too much about Andersen's NBA rebounding ability. Let's take a look at the rebounding numbers for both players during the last 4 season each of them played in the Euroleague (omitting domestic league numbers since there are no Russian domestic league numbers for Andersen). Rebounds per 40 min, pace adjusted: Andersen: 10.9, 9.2, 9.9, 7.9 Scola: 8.0, 8.9, 9.1, 8.6. Andersen was actually a better rebounder of the two on this basis, except for that last year. Luis Scola elevated his rebounding numbers to 10.6 and 11.7 rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted during his first two NBA seasons, which is generally in line with John Hollinger's observation that European players typically see a significant bump in rebounding rate once arriving in the NBA (more missed shots and available rebounds per minute or possession in NBA). Now, we don't know if Andersen will follow the same pattern. However, it's not unreasonable to expect it. Andersen's Euroleague rebounding numbers doesn't seem any more alarming than Scola's was. Andersen in Russia vs. Andersen in Spain: Sort of a side note... I found it a bit strange that Andersen's rebounding numbers dipped quite significantly when he moved from CSKA to FC Barcelona and tried to find an explanation. Did Andersen simply decline and went soft on the boards at age 28 or 29? The data seems to indicate that the reasons could be: 1. Andersen's role became more perimeter shooting oriented with Barcelona-- he spotted up for 3s a little more frequently (and may have taken more longer range 2s as well), thus taking him out of some offensive boards, and 2. He had better rebounding teammates who "stole" a few of his rebounds. Here is Barcelona's team stats last year: http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteamstats?clubcode=bar&pcode=akt And CSKA's stats in 2007-2008: http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteamstats?clubcode=csk&pcode=akt&seasoncode=e2007 Barcelona appears to have better rebounding bigs around him (Elyasova and Vazquez) than did CSKA (Goree was good, Smodis only played a part of the season). Conclusion: While we won't know how Andersen will work out, there doesn't seem to be any good reason why to believe he'd be a big rebounding liability based on his European numbers.
Great analysis. I came into the thread expecting it to be negative and was quite surprised by how you looked at it. Interesting read. Thanks.
Thumbs up. I would be curious to see how other European big men translated when coming over to the NBA ... to extend from just the scola and andersen comparison. Who else would be comparable in this scenario?
I've never seen him play. But I've heard from people that have watched him play plenty that he has a reputation for being soft. In Europe. So I'm not exactly expecting a beast here. That said, Hollinger's projection from a year ago had him providing a decent rebound rate. Maybe somewhere between Scola and Juwan Howard. Not Mo Taylor-bad.
Good to know that the team can bank on him when it comes to rebounding. The team needs rebounds if they want to be a running team. More rebounds the more chance in running and scoring.
Can't think of other veteran interior guys who joined the NBA at a comprable age recently... I believe, however, that John Hollinger did some analysis historically and found that, on average, rebounding rate for the same player in the NBA is about 18% higher than in Europe. Scola's increase was above that average-- and there are certainly players who did not experience a comparable rise (Marc Gasol, for one, did not... but I think he was playing for a worse team in Spain, and probably carried more of the burden all around)... but something around 18% increase from Andersen's previous Euro numbers would be respectable, and probably won't killd the team if guys like Scola, Hayes and Landry can pick up some of the slack.
The proof of his rebounding prowess or lack there of will be shown in the regular season. If he doesn't box out well,he won't be to do much. Lots of guys are much bigger and quicker than him.
love the research and the hope that Anderson becomes another late to the NBA from euro great result for the rockets recruit like Scola..... i was wondering if a another and perhaps better comparision is there respective performances at the last Olympics and World Champs..... if can find the time will dig them up but if someone beats me to it awesome
the problem is andersen is probably going to be a mehmet okur type...floating around the perimetre a lot of the times and shooting 3's and jumpers loads of the time. Plus whatever high-post centre-comes-out to receive the ball offense adelman is going to run he'll be away from the paint more than any of our bigs have ever been (even more than yao ming)... compared that with scola, landry, hayes who bangs in the paint a lot more due to their limited shooting range and so they tend hang in the paint more and thus getting more rebounds. Hence Mehmet Okur gets less rebounds than Luis Scola even though he plays Center which tends to get more rebounds than forwards and he's taller than Scola and is more experienced. I think Okur gets more minutes than Scola due to our timeshare at PF.
Scola had bigger role and much better stats in the Olympics than Andersen (the Aussies had Andrew Bogut as their starting 5, I think, and Andresen only played about 16 mpg). His rebounding rate during the Olympics (6 games, 98 minutes) was pretty much comparable to his Euro numbers. http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08.../teamnumber/239/fe_teamPlay_teamAccuStat.html
Besides the fact that he came over all the way back in 1995, it is totally unfair to compare any Euro player to Arvydas Sabonis. He is without question the greatest European player to ever play the game of basketball. Had he been permitted by the USSR to come to the NBA at an early age, we would probably be talking about Sabonis in the same breath as Olajuwon and Shaq. He was THAT good. Hell, he came over only after is knees began to deteriorate, and he STILL was one of the top 6 or 7 centers in the league. Let's compare Jermaine Taylor to Michael Jordan while we're at it.
Scola gets half of his rebounds on straight hustle. I doubt Andersen has a quarter of Scola's hustle.
Well during the interview he did mention that the NBA game is more intense and physical. Most of us think that he'll be soft but didn't we say that about Yao when he first came to the NBA? It all comes down to how much he wants to be here. And if he does, like he stated many times to the press (and even taking a pay cut coming here just to play in this league), he'll get his ***** on and be a aggressive post player. He does seem like he's the type to hustle and bustle. We'll see...
He's a 3 point shooting big man. Of course he is soft, but probably in the same vein as Dirk. Dirk rebounds at a respectable rate.
Yeah, but now he has to rebound with Dwight, Shaq, Camby, Lee, Biedrins instead of those soft skinny guys overseas.
And wasn't he when he entered the NBA league? Comparing him with Scola isn't that fair, because Scola is a much better player, with a more important role on his national team. Anywaym, great read Carl.
what's that supposed to mean? why the emphasis on "in europe"? you do know that european basketball is more physical than nba basketball, right? players in europe are vastly inferior in terms of athleticism and size in comparison to nba players but they are allowed much more contact. plus, european players are used to play with more intensity because there are fewer games and almost every game is important. while it's a fact that playoffs basketball in the nba is a whole different animal it still remains that an average fiba euroleague game is a lot more intensive and physical than an average regular season game in the nba. as to andersen's rebounding, i've already posted the comparison to scola in the thread that was started about it last week. andersen is at least the rebounder scola was in europe. another candidate for comparison would be marc gasol. andersen was on his level in europe as well. with enough playing time (around 25 mpg) andersen will have the same numbers in the nba marc gasol or scola had in their rookie seasons. double figures in points and 6 - 7 rebounds per night is a pretty reasonable expectation if he's able to adjust to the nba game pretty quick (which should be expected from a proven winner and international veteran...).
