Unless the unlikely occurs and the Rockets are offered Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett, I think you <b>have</B> to take Yao Ming. Sure there is a great risk involved but the Rockets must dare to be great. Trading down for Dunleavy or trading the pick away for the likes of Lamar Odom is just a waste of time. Realistically, it doesn't matter what kind of team you put together because the Lakers will always win. The Sacramento Kings and the Dallas Mavericks both have a plethora of talented players but they will never get past Kobe and Shaq. By trading the pick, the Rockets will be shooting for mediocrity. They'de be fooling themselves if they thought they could win a championship with any team with Francis as the best player. To beat the Lakers, you will need something the league has never seen before, something revolutionary. Yao Ming may turn out to be the biggest flop since Pervis Ellison but you have to take the chance and dare to be great. He could turn out to have the same impact the Rockets franchise's last #1 pick had.
I agree completely. The Rockets have to take Ming at 1, unless some team is sells its soul for that pick. The guy is very skilled and has great size (height and weight). I had concerns about the politics, but that all doesn't seem as daunting anymore (as more information is becoming available). The beautiful part about this situation is that not only will the Rockets get the player they covet at #1, but they still have the #15 with which to work some magic.
Damn, thacabbage, I was just saying in another thread that I was looking for your take and some of the other respected posters. Hey, ramal--- modo your a$$ out of here and find the rocket guy... I'm sure he can use you.
nicely put Cabbage. I don't think we necessarily have to plan on beating Shaq though. By the time we'd be ready to make a title run with Ming Shaq would be out of the league or close to it imo. I don't see how anybody could pass on a talented center though. Talented big men wins titles. Odom, Jamison(bleh), Mike Dunleavy gets you playoffs, maybe.
Great post. I agree 100%. What is the big risk? The most pessimistic realistic downside is that Yao is a Rick Smits or a (brain freeze) that huge guy that the Jazz had who clogged up the middle and used to give Hakeem fits. Both would be useful. The upside is true championship contention. BTW I heard a blurb on 610 that made it sound like Mobley was pushing for Yao. Did anyone hear the complete comment? It also bothers me that people try to pretend like their is absolutely no risk at all with Dunlevy, Williams or Butler, all of whom might not turn out to be all stars either. Dunlevy could be too slow, William could be a tweener as a two guard or not quite a point guard and Butler could be a bit short for a forward.
Wish I saw more of your posts, these days ... I miss you around here... <b>I have to agree.</b> ... (but I'd still listen to all the trade offers...)
I was going to start my own thread, but you guys pretty much made my case aleady. I'll post this anyway since I already went to the trouble of typing it up. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, let’s say that the Rockets suddenly name me to replace CD as GM of the Rockets. Here’s my strategy on the draft: Primary Needs: Low Post Scoring, Defense, Rebounding and Shot Blocking. Yao Ming is a potential franchise center, but he’s got a lot of question surrounding him. Everyone in the NBA pretty much agrees the guy can play and that he won’t be a bust. The difference of opinions on him seem to be on exactly how good he will be. Bill Walton loves him. Jerry West compares him to Ric Smits. Others have commented on the difficulty of dealing with the Chinese government, but nobody (NBA folks) has said that the guy can’t play. So, is he a franchise center or is he a young Ric Smits? Then again, does it really matter? Let’s look at the state of today’s NBA centers. You have Shaq and Tim Duncan (he’s the 2nd best center in the NBA if he wants to play the position), but what is there after that? You’ve got some aging guys like Mutumbo, Robinson, Olajuwon and Divacs. You’ve got guys with health problems like Mourning and Ilgauskas. You’ve got power forwards playing center like Camby, Wallace, LaFrenz, Keon Clark, Lo Wright and Dale Davis. The remaining centers have some solid players, but no real franchise guys: Battie,McCullough, Jahadi White, Olowokandi, Dampier, Tsakalidas, Jerome James, Elden Campbell and Brad Miller. So, worst case, if Yao does no better than become a young Ric Smits, then he’s still a top 5 center in a year or two. Best case, he becomes a franchise center on the level of Shaq and Duncan. That’s a pretty large upside. Today’s draft is all about potential, so a potential franchise center has to be my choice for the #1 pick. No other player in the draft has the upside potential of Yao Ming. Whether or not you believe the reports that Ming really has low post moves that he showed in his private workouts with the Bulls and Knicks, he’s too tempting to pass up. Now of course, there is a risk in selecting a player based on potential. The obvious way to mitigate that risk is to find a team with equally high expectations for Yao and to get them to compensate us with a package equal to Yao’s potential. In other words, if I’m going to trade Yao Ming, then I’m going to get compensation appropriate for a franchise center. This is much like the Chicago-Clippers deal last year. The Bulls thought that Tyson Chandler would develop into an All-Star caliber forward, so they were willing to give up an All-Star caliber forward (Brand) in return. Franchise centers are the most coveted commodity in the NBA, so if I’m going to trade Yao Ming, it’s going to have to be a deal that is so overwhelming that I can’t turn it down. If somebody believes that he’s a franchise center, then they need to make me a deal that I can’t turn down. Otherwise I hang on to Yao and take my chances with him. There’s a lot of appealing deals that could be offered, but those deals need to make us a better team and preferably sooner than later. Getting good players that duplicate our strengths and don’t improve our weaknesses won’t help. Something like, Sprewell and the 7th pick won’t get it done. Speculating on other college players potential isn't appealing either. It would have to be something that makes us better regardless of how Yao Ming develops. Rule of thumb is that if you have to evaluate the deal for more than 30 seconds, then it’s not a good enough offer. Here’s an example. It’s too complicated to really happen, but it illustrates the type of deal that it would take to get me to trade Yao Ming. Let’s say that the Rocket doctors check out McDyess and Ratliff and are convinced that they are healthy. Hou: Trade: Kenny Thomas, Moochie Norris, Glen Rice, Maurice Taylor,Jason Collier, #1 overall and #15 Overall. Hou receives: Antonio McDyess, Theo Ratliff and James Posey. Den : Trade: Antonio McDyess, James Posey, #5 overall Den: Receives: #1 overall, Glen Rice, Dion Glover, Kenny Thomas, Jason Collier Atl: Trade: Theo Ratlif, Dion Glover Atl: receives: Maurice Taylor, Moochie Norris, #5 Overall, #15 Overall Like I said, this deal isn’t going to happen ( I got carried away trying to make the salaries match up), but it is an example of a deal that is a “no brainer” for the Rockets and it would strengthen our areas of weakness (rebounding, shot blocking, defense and low post scoring). If you can’t overwhelm me with a deal similar to this, then Yao Ming will be wearing striped pajamas next year.
No way Dunleavy gets us to the playoffs. Odom and Jamison right now are MUCH better then Dunleavy will be. I have serious reservations about him, I don't know if he has the build to make an impact his first year in the NBA.
Preach on guys. I don't want to hear the **** about his small wingspan, obligations to the Chinese government or about his lack of strength. His wingspan isn't that small, the Chinese governmnet just wants some good press/money and he's got some damn powerful legs. The guy has the potential to be like no player we've ever seen and you can't pass on that. No way. I'm 100% with Kraut on this one.
Great post cabbage!! No balls no glory! Never be afraid to stick it out. Because the upside like you said can be rewarding like none other. Houston has had a tradition of having big men since Elvin Hayes, Moses Malone, Ralph Sampson, and Hakeem. It's been one year removed of a Hakeem on our roster. Kind of like the one year removed from Moses Malone before we got Ralph Sampson. Houston is a team that must maintain its tradition of centers!! And now with Griffin, Mobley, and Francis a true juggernaut could be in the sun rise of the NBA!
aelliot: GREAT post. Keep it up, man. We need more of it. My biggest concern with Ming is simple: what are the problems with dealing with China? If I'm the Rockets, I HAVE to know that Ming is available all the time and that the restrictions on him are minimum at MOST. If he becomes a part-time player or can't make summer workouts, etc., I can't see taking him. That would be a nightmare. Other than that, I agree that if you have a shot at a franchise calliber center, you go for it. There are no sure things in the draft anyway. That's a myth.
Excellent post, cabbage. Exactly what I think. Unless CD gets offered something outrageous, like Duncan or KG, or maybe Brand, Kandi, and the Clips pick, I'm keeping that pick and turning my back on all offers. None of this Mcdyess B.S....he's a bigger risk due to health than taking Ming, IMO.
Dare to be great... I mean, we have the world looking at us right now. Every option will be weighed and in the end the best decision will be made. How great is it being back on the world's center stage? Before we go any further...I have heard nothing yet....yet! In my opinion, you can fill the seats, you can market globally, you can capture the heart of an entire country, you can get national tv exposure, and your logo will be everywhere if.....IF...Yao is the pick. Dare to be great! My question is this - how can Pau Gasol be good? I mean, he's skinny, he's not strong, he's young, and know one really knew about him last year? Yet somehow, he was the MAN with all kinds of skills. No one here has SEEN this kid play. We've all seen the jetlagged workout on ESPN and are basing everything we say and know on that and hearsay. Hearsay said Gore was the president! ( Thank GOD that was wrong! ) What I'm saying is there is ONE player who could be, and I stress could be, unstoppable like a Duncan is unstoppable. That player is Ming. JW could be a great point guard but 'great' PG's come out every year. Great SF's come out every year. Marketing dreams that are 7'6 do NOT come out every year. HE'S NOT BRADLEY FOR THE LAST TIME!!! thacabbage - DARE TO BE GREAT! Don't live your life in fear people! If we miss on Ming, If we miss on David Carr, if we miss on Roy Oswalt, then we miss.
I agree also. Never trade a potential great player for good players. Odom is very talented but has issues (drugs, maturity, injuries) and the #8 pick could be a very productive but highly uneventful player. The Lakers will dominate for at least 3-4 more years until Shaq's body just gives out (which will happen at some point with Hack a Shaq). If Ming turns out to be great in 3-4 years, that should be just enough time for Griffin to develop, Ming to bulk up, and Franchise to mature.
For my 1000th post, I'd like to join in this thread of such optimism and joy expressed better than I can. This is such a fantastic vantage point to be looking from right now; the possiblities, like stars in the distance, shine with incredible brilliance. They're still far away. It's a long climb to a championship from here regardless. But the perspective for a lottery team doesn't get much better than this. Seize the day! I still can't believe we have the #1 pick. BELIEVE IT, HOUSTON!
Great posts so far. Let me end the streak I think Yao Ming is already having a huge impact on this board. I haven't seen this kind of optimism since the regular season began. I see a lot of old names making appearances again. The question is, what does Yao Ming need to have, to be great? From my memories of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at the end of his career, all he really needed was a Sky-Hook, which was virtually unblockable coming from a guy that size. Rik Smits, a guy with really bad legs and little strength or coordination, used to give Patrick Ewing fits when they matched up. If Yao has or can develop a nice hook shot, and pass well, he will be unstoppable. Someone should send him tapes of Kareem and Bill Walton. To paraphrase someone on this board: Yao Ming! Yao Ming! Yao Ming! Yao Ming is 7.5 feet tall!
Amen. It comes down to this: You're not going to find greater potential than Yao Ming. It won't happen. He potentially can change the game. He fills nearly every need we have (center, inside passing, shooting, defense, attendance). People talk about the Chicago workout-that was a jet lagged Ming vs. a 7'2'' 300 lb. guy-as big as nearly anyone in the NBA. He still showed his stuff. I saw in one clip, he was stepping out to the three point line-he had a fluent, natural stroke. He put up 30-20-5-3. The Chinese leagues aren't the NCAA, but they're better than HS-and there have been posts that have showed the big men are only slightly smaller than in the NBA. Bradley played basketball just because he was tall. He doesn't really like basketball. Yao Ming is a basketball player. He breathes basketball. He's not a "safe" pick. So what? To win a championship, risks are necessary. This is one of them. Unless someone blows me away, China goes crazy on us, Yao is the guy. Don't believe the hype-it allowed Phoenix to take Jake Tsakalidis to 15 spots later than he would've gone.
Jeff: I disagree with this statement only because there ARE true sure things in drafts Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and even Stevie has lived up to his hype and is trying to become more of a leader than I thought he'd ever be. Each of those players IMO were "no-brainers" Nonetheless, I agree 100% with this thread, but unfortunately Yao is NO sure thing, but he sure COULD be..and imagine the Rox if he is!!
