I read Dale's column just now, and it was clear that he was really chapped about something Billy Wagner must have said. but I have no idea what he's talking about. what did Billy say and when? thanks in advance.
Billy made a comment about how the fans in Houston don't know when to cheer. Or something to that effect.
did he say that recently? like after he got mauled two games ago? what was the context? is Dale making something out of nothing?
You're kidding, right? Wags has said stupid **** too many times to count. See Leyritz episode, debacle in Pittsburg, etc....Every time he opens his mouth, I cringe.
Well, what the hell is there to cheer for? After the **** from yesterday, I would be booing the hell out of them! They seriously better get their act together.
In last week's issue of SI, a column was run about how Houston Astros baseball takes a secondary seat to football in the city. The column begins with a quote from Wagner saying (loosely paraphrased b/c the magazine is in my car and not with me at my office at work)... "Houston is a football town. The fans aren't as knowledgable about baseball. they don't know when to boo and when to cheer." I was shocked to read it. The afternoon guys on 610 were discussing it on my drive home.
thanks, drapg. if there was an entire article in SI about it, then the questions must've been somewhat loaded. still not a great thing to have in print a week before you blow a HUGE game.
Sorry, but it always seems he is talking jockese 101. From the Bigg and Bags book of interview answering. I never pay attention to what they say, only how they play.
Wagner is the last person who gets to make this criticism. He's done jack in the playoffs...but he gets a freaking standing ovation everytime he takes the mound. Should we be booing when you take the mound, Billy? Pitch like you did the other night in the first Giants game, and we'll happily boo your butt.
I didn't read his comments (posted here) as a rap on Houstonians. Houston *is* a football town. Houston has many great baseball fans, but football is the unquestioned king. He probably could have been more tactful in his delivery but, as we know from Monday's game, his delivery can be erratic.
Well, maybe our fans shouldn't have been giving the astros moral support and a standing ovation at the end of that 10-3 drubbing we took the other day then. I thought that was pure class by our fans that did stick around. If we were a football town, then we would have never lost the Oilers in the first place and done what was necessary to make Bud happy and keep them. All we ended up doing was building a new stadium and spending all this money to get a new team anyway. I think we are a basketball town personally but only when we are winning. lol
not true. he wanted a new stadium because he was selling the dome at 110% capacity for the 8 years prior...i have a copy of the report prepared by Coopers & Lybrand for the Oilers...the major contention is that the city needed a football-only venue because the Dome couldn't meet the demand. having said that...we never got to vote on this...not at all. it was never in the hands of Houstonians. Houston is absolutely a football town. It is far more a football town than any other sport. I'm not proclaiming that because I love all 3. But having lived here my whole life, I'd say the town is far more passionate for football on all levels than it is for any other sport.
Refresh my memory then. What led up to Bud pulling the team? I seem to recall many discussions about him wanting a new stadium regardless of reasons. Did he really need a reason? The Dome was an antique and among the oldest in the league. If his above claim had merit(which I don't know if it did), then that only further supports his case. Didn't the breakdown come between Bud and the mayor or something resulting in Bud leaving with the team? Are you saying we never had any opportunity at all to keep our original football team? I don't know...I'm asking since you have the report and I don't. I would say in 94-95...we were a basketball city. lol thanks
Not only that, but the Dome was poorly constructed for football with too many seats situated in the end zone areas and not enough along the sidelines. Even tearing out the scoreboard to add more seats was not all that financially successful for the Oilers since those seats were not along the sidelines.
Here's the thing, though, a city can be a football town and still have officials that don't want to give away the store to sports team owners. Think about the relationship the Oilers had with City Hall and the County. The Oilers threatened to move away a few games into their first season in Houston and repeated that claim multiple times. Add to that Bud's inability to get along with the movers-and-shakers in the city. It takes more than making a case that the facility is needed for the team to get it built. it takes glad handling, it takes sucking up to big-wigs. It takes negotiation and patience. Bud truly never had the right frame of mind to get these things accomplished. Compare his personality with those who have gotten things done in the city. It's not that Bud's personality is bad, it's just doesn't get what he needed or wanted. Bud would, instead, say what he wanted, and then expect city officials to fall into line. I believe that, in his mind, all he would have to do is make a fair offer (and I think Bud did try to make fair offers) and everything would come together. When it didn't, instead of doing the glad-handling, Bud would pull out the moving card in earnest. Now, the moving threat card is very powerful, and it is almost always used by sports owners (we've seen Drayton and Alexander also use it). Bud, however, used it a little too often. It became part of the dance. Bud wants something, he doesn't get it right away, a few days later he's on television visiting some stadium site in another city - be it Seattle, Jacksonville and eventually Nashville. And I honestly believe Lanier was still doing to the dance when Bud made his deal with Nashville. They'd done this before. Bud wants it, he threatens to move, then he comes back and takes something less than what he originally asked for. I think Lanier took the Bud Dome to be a first offer, and once Bud was done looking at stadium sites on the Cumberland, he'd come back and they'd make another deal. Because you have to keep in mind City Hall's position. He can't simply accept whatever offer Bud comes up with, no matter how good the offer is. There first has to be some level of desire amongst the movers-and-shakers to get a facility built. Bud needed to get those people on his side and backing the project. And then, the Mayor still has to reject whatever offer the team has made. Otherwise, it just looks like he's taking a bad deal, no matter what the deal is. The Mayor has to extract some sort of concessions from the team. And this was a tough time for Bud because whenever he started making his case, he had Drayton disputing him and Alexander saying, "Hey, my team's a winner, and we need a new place, too." Bud just wasn't popular enough, either at City Hall, among the city's movers-and-shakers or among the general public to get what he wanted. He had played the "I'm moving" card too many times and had done too many unpopular things. Bud had a huge hill to climb in getting a new stadium. He never would've gotten Reliant Stadium. The city just never would've done that for him. That's unfortunate, but I think it was more about the man and the perception people had of him than any love for the team or any love of the sport (or lack thereof).
Bud and the mayor didn't get along at all. And let's keep in mind that NO ONE stood up for Bud...because he's a jackass...literally, after 30 or so years of living here, he didn't have one other business leader in the community stand up and say, "let's help bud out and keep the oilers here." contrast that to the help mclane got for the new baseball park. there is a benefit to treating people well..karma is a b****. no...the people never had a chance to vote at all...it was never brought before the voters. the first stadium referendum was after the oilers left. but keep in mind... 1. bud said, "yeah..we'll build a stadium and the rockets will play there too." he did that before even talking to the rockets! the rockets response was, "ummmm...yeah..we've seen the alamodome...so, thanks..but no, thanks." 2. also...we were still paying the INTEREST on the loans we took to refurbish the Dome in satisfaction of Bud's demands just a few years earlier where he said he was moving to jacksonville. it was a long time before any one even took him seriously, because it had only been about 6 years since his previous announcement that he would pull out and move his team to jacksonville if he didn't get either a new stadium or dome refurbishments. keep in mind...we made those refurbishments with the broken promise from the NFL that if we did we'd get a Super Bowl. 3. bud then signed an exclusive agreement to negotiate only with nashville officials FOR 12 MONTHS!!! we were done once he signed that agreement. nashville bent over big time...they put a tax on their water to build that crappy stadium! but, their voters had a say...ours did not. 4. at the expiration of that exclusive negotiating agreement, Lanier offered Bud an open air stadium....Bud said his decision had already been made. honestly, it was made well before that...and then he started saying, "the oilers are no longer houston's NFL team...they're Bud Adams' entry into the NFL." it was over. 5. i don't think anyone of us would argue charlotte isn't a good basketball market...but they ultimately lost the hornets over facilities issues like this. there are all sorts of issues that surround these things...but ultimately it's way too simplistic to say, "you must not be a good football market because you lost your team."
