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Cyberx: Rockets will go after Durant hard in 2016

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by RV6, Feb 18, 2015.

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  1. basketballholic

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    Interesting post. Agree with you. But if we're having a hard time convincing Harden to move off the ball for a single better playmaker how do you expect to convince him to move off the ball for multiple facilitators and participate in a true 5-man attack? I think what I'm asking is very improbably. I think what you're describing is nigh unto impossible.

    But your assists comment.....just don't fly. Sure he's averaged a load of assists. And he's set the record for turnovers in the process. One begets the other. He's not a great facilitator because everybody knows what's coming as soon as he gets the ball at the top. The opponents know, everybody in the gymnasium knows, everybody watching on TV knows. There's no element of surprise. It's the same thing over and over with no variant.

    Now...his moves with the ball would be great coupled with other true facilitators. Agreed. But we can't convince him to move off the ball for one guy. Much less the 3 or 4 you are talking about.
     
  2. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    so what's the answer to your riddle?
     
  3. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    Nothing has been shown to say that James harden is not perfectly capable of being the top facilitator on a championship team. He's just as good/better/or slightly worse as Kobe, wade, mj, pippen, etc...

    The difference is many great teams had multiple good facilitators. Lebron/wade, mj/pippen etc...

    Lebron couldn't so it on his own but wade did with a historically dominant big. Kobe is the same as wade. Lebron and wade together were better than they were apart.

    Adding Lawson failed because Lawson failed and sucks now. What we need is a competent second facilitator, Durant would be plenty good enough, Conley would also work.

    They could work because the don't need the ball in order to succeed but still strive with it. Harden is much better with the ball, as is Durant, but they can both succeed off the ball. Same as a Conley type player.

    Adding a rondo, rubio type player doesn't make us better, it makes us worse because it diminishes hardens brilliance and makes him play a lesser role than that of a role player.
     
  4. basketballholic

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    you'll see someday
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    We saw when Parsons was here.

    DD
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Heres an idea, just have Harden take ten less shots a game and instead just pass to teammates who will brick open shots. His turnovers will go way down, and so will his scoring, but his assists will go up.

    Then he will be a "top tier facilitator" and we would be worse off.
     
  7. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Now, now.....let the Harden haters have their due. :rolleyes: Sigh. And my, how they squawk.

    Those who forsake clutchfans for 790 SR make that station almost unlistenable when I drive into work in the morning. They all have a tendency to shriek. And I wish I could yell back at them, "Get Harden someone else who is great or at least very consistently good and you wouldn't have anything to yell about. Harden wouldn't have to do all the lifting."
     
    #787 ROXTXIA, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  8. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    I'm actually in agreement with DD amazing lol

    This. Add even an average facilitator like parsons and his offense is so much smoother and less turnover prone. Harden is great and by god he does have costly last second fumbles but he has nobody else who can create.

    The worst. Damn Larry from Stafford is only known because all he does is yell and scream about everything, worse then Steven a. Smith, and I'll holla.
     
  9. basketballholic

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    Stupid idea.


    Here's an idea, just have Harden take about 4 more shots per game instead of trying to pass to teammates and getting the ball stolen and let those shots come to him from a primary facilitator penetrating and feeding him wide-open looks.
     
  10. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Should have tried to get Rondo
     
  11. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    I think harden could avg 32/6/6 with a better playmaker next to him. His assist numbers would look like Steph currys this season.

    While his assist might dip to 5-6 I still think he would be the premier playmaking off guard. He's still very good at finding shooters in the corners and also slipping the pocket pass on the pick and roll. It's the other stuff that he needs to tone down and I think he would If he had a guy who fouod dribble the ball and make plays for himslef as well as others.

    We need a certified Allstar next to harden, even dame lillard plays with a better 2nd scorer/playmaker in McCollum then harden has played with in his 4 years in Houston.

    i don't know maybe I'm wrong but I think what you are implying is You want harden to play a more Steph curr roll were he's the secondary playmaker? Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  12. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    KD is watching this game right now and thinking "DAMN I gotta join this team, new dynasty".
     
  13. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    You were saying?

    This game - and every other playoff game Harden has played as a Rocket - has shown that he wilts in the playoffs and is at best a mediocre and careless facilitator. He's yet another ball-hogging guard who doesn't make anyone better and who relies on everyone else to cover his woeful defense.
     
  14. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    "man I'm totally in the running for h-town...if they hadn't made the playoffs as opposed to this beatdown it'd be a different story...winning franchise!" ;)
     
  15. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    Q F T
     
  16. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Chris Mannix on an OKC podcast:

    Vibe on Durant?

    CM: I don't think he knows yet [either]. He's looking forward to the recruiting process. He wants his LeBron type moment, holding meetings with 4-5-6 teams, getting everyone's best pitch. He's entitled to it and from what I'm told actively wants it. The number of teams he can go to is finite. Golden State is real. San Antonio is real. Boston is real. People in his camp are telling him Boston can be a great fit because it's the East. If you get Danny Ainge & Brad Stevens in a room, they can be incredibly persuasive. What OKC has going for them, besides being able to offer the most money short term(he'll sign a one year deal no matter what) and long term, they have the sustained contender that they're able to build around him. He's as preoccupied with winning as anyone. He's out to win. He wants to win games. OKC can present him with a track record of long success and a roster that'll give him even more success down the line. Moreover, they're willing to spend. That's been an issue in the past but they'll go above & beyond the cap here on out to try and build this roster. Giving a guy like Kanter the max sorta indicates that. They'll always be haunted by James Harden and that won't change although I still wonder how long he would have been wanting out of OKC, given he's a star now but they'll be haunted to go all the way up with Harden. OKC will always be right there. Wizards have fallen off. Lakers aren't realistic right now. Only a few teams OKC has to compete with.

    Q: Warriors & Spurs — going to Steph's team and a ready made team and also San Antonio to that environment. Kawhi & Aldridge, they're set. View on him going to a ready made team?

    CM: On the surface, it doesn't make sense. You have a better read than I would on his mindset. Would he accept walking on to someone else's team to win a championship? GS wouldn't be a LeBron-Wade situation in Miami where it was Wade's team for the first 6 months of year one and then it was LeBron's team in Miami. It'll always be Steph's team. He'd be one of the greatest Scottie Pippen's to Steph's Michael Jordan. Does he have that mindset where he's willing to be the 2nd fiddle to a star? SA is a little different. They would probably trade Aldridge at that point. They might have to just to get under the cap to acquire him. Same sorta scenario - do you want to go in there and be another figure on someone else's team? Does he want to be the alpha male? Does he need it to be his team? If he goes to GS or SA, it won't be his team and he'll have to accept that.

    Q: I think his mindset is that(wanting it to be his team). Going back, the "I'm tired of being second." He reads everything and wants to be known as the star. It remains...I can see Boston but tough to see the Warriors.

    CM: To me, Boston is the ultimate darkhorse. Eastern Conference, it's a mess over there, what will happen to Cleveland this offseason? Boston has a very good roster in place. He'd step in, his team and Danny Ainge with 9,000 draft picks including what could be the 3rd pick or higher and you're off to the races out there with a young contender in a conference that doesn't feature the type of opponents the west does.

    Q: Once the season ends, I think he'll have a window to sit down and in July, be recruited. In the end, a one year deal sits as the obvious move. You give Boston, Lakers, other organizations another year to build themselves up while chasing a title with Westbrook & OKC and then decide with Russ is it working or not working.

    CM: Agree. It makes far too much sense not to sign one year deal and make a joint decision/in concert with Westbrook. It makes too much sense for Durant and gives OKC another year. If they win it this year or next, he's not leaving.
     
  17. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    No Rockets reference I see.
     
  18. clos4life

    clos4life Member

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    If you were Durant would you be interested in coming to this mess? Unless we make some great changes as soon as we get out of the playoffs Durant is not going to let us hold his jock.
     
  19. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

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    Yeah if we are waiting for Durant we are going to be disappointed as hell. KD isn't walking through that door!
     
  20. Cashmoney

    Cashmoney Member

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    As amazing as KD would be, I think you're right.

    We would be far better off seriously pursuing Horford and Batum. Both are very nice passers and exceptionally solid two way players.

    Another move I would do is sign Evan Fournier. This may be a slightly left field move, but this dude can ball. He's a gamer, solid defender, can handle the ball and put it on the floor and make plays for others. Great three point shooter. He would be an awesome fit on this team.

    I'd also look at signing Noah as the back up C.

    I would then draft Melo Trimble, as he fits the mold of that PG that can make the right play at the right time, as well as being able to score. The rotation could look like:

    PG. Fournier
    SG. Harden
    SF. Batum
    PF. Horford (or Dmo if we strike out)
    C. Capela/Noah

    Bench:

    PG. Beverley/Trimble
    SG. Selden/Fournier
    SF. Ariza
    PF. Dmo/Beasley/Harrell
    C. Noah/Harrell/Capela
     
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