He creates more on the bbs than Francis for sure! <font size="1">disclaimer: don't take personal offense to anything in this thread. I am just spurring conversation. FIRE AWAY!</font> But seriously, no bias here. Can someone explain to me why you think Francis is a better point guard than Cuttino is a shooting guard? I mean, comparisons are made and crap his "heaved" at Cuttino, but he IS a "shooting guard". And he IS playing the role that Rudy asks. Francis, on the other hand, is the one who does not understand his role. Francis shows no interest in developing this team's transition game other than wanting to run the wing and get the highlight reel dunk...ummmm, Stevie, you are the point guard......you...don't...run...the...WING (cause who goes down the middle, then). I am getting as sick of Francis not running transition more, as people are sick of Mobley running too much ISO. I want less ISO, too. I say that all the time. But who ever says on this board they want MORE transition. AND who is to blame for that! Uhhh...the point guard that wants to run the wing. The difference is: Mobley does what he is told (be a shooting guard), and Francis can't do the basics of what he wants to do (be a point guard and improve our transition), yet. It is so ironic to hear people say "Mobley thinks for himself" or "Is a lose cannon" or "Does what he wants". That is not true, and there are many, many Rudy quotes to refute that. Mobley just doesn't do what YOU want him to. He does what Rudy wants him to. OK, so he doesn't win EVERY game. BUT!!!!!!!!! Rudy wants a better transition game, and Francis hasn't improved it at ALL. Not one aota. Is Francis a better point guard than Cuttino is a shooting guard? I love Stevie, and bought season tickets the day after we got him. But, I thought I was buying into more Transition game....nope, not yet! Not even close! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 07, 2001).]
Francis is a "player" not an old school point guard like I guess you want. He's a combo guard and he's not gonna do everything that the throwback point guards do. Is that a plus or a minus for this team? I say it's a big plus and you should just deal with fact that Francis is a new school point guard who does a little bit of EVERYTHING as opposed to old school point guards who only did one or 2 things well. ------------------
Who's running the transition?? Most everytime I look up it is Steve. And as of late doing better, especially with Shandon on the wing finishing now. Sure, sometimes Steve is on the wing and Moochie or Cuttino or Shandon are running the ball down the court, but Steve runs the point most of the time. As far as Cuttino. I really have no problem with him. I jsut dont like the ISO offese that Rudy tells him to do. So I have more of a problem with RUdy's opinion on that (although I like how he coaches usually). But I dont think you can argue that Cuttino personifies a team player better than Francis does, if thats what youre trying to say. When Cuttino thinks of the team--which Im sure he does--he thinks "Give me the ball now so I can score and help the team" When Francis thinks of the team, it is more of a "I got to hit this guy or that guy, get these people involved, take my shots when I can.." etc,etc. At least thats what I see on the court. ------------------ "There are some frauds so well conducted that it would be stupidity not to be deceived by them." Charles Caleb Colton (1780-1832)
tacoma, I did not say I want a "throwback" point guard. You are confusing me with others. I want TRANSITION dammit. So do you, I'm sure. And Stevie is not delivering on that. Hell, our transition is pretty non-existent by most NBA standards. The opposition always has a better transition than us...all but for like 1 or 2 games. I'm not asking for a "throwback" PG. Find another argument tacoma. That one doesn't fit here. ------------------ "I'm not going to censor myself or my opinions because some are sensitive...fire away!" --Jeff 12/7/00
Francis is out-scoring, out-rebounding, out shooting,has more blocks and steals, and has 3 times as many assists per game as Cuttino Mobley. Cat is averaging 2 assists per game. Who are the 2 guys per game he is creating for ? As for the Utah game, it looked as if Steve was demanding the ball from Cuttino. Cat just didn't even look to pass it. Steve had the hot hand, maybe he should have taken the last shot. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
Jay, It is not "who is running the transition"; the question is "who is not running it ENOUGH". When we don't run the transition, it is often because Francis released to the wing or got the rebound and did not outlet it or push it. Our transition sucks by any quantitative measure. Shout out to HEATH...show me the STATS!!!
gr8-1, the Topic title is a JOKE. Uhhhh, duh! Of course Francis creates; he is the PG for godsakes. The question is: is he a better PG than Cuttino is a Shooting guard. Read the author's post completely, before you respond with BIAS next time. and don't forget to FIRE AWAY with impunity!!!! Just get the topic right. It is about the transition game SUCKS!! And no one wants to talk about it, because Francis is clearly the savior who is not delivering in the major aspect of what Rudy wants to accomplish here.
I do agree that it is not being run enough. But to me it all boils down to poor rebounding. Steve is in there rebounding with the big guys cause we have no rebounders. Basically what I am saying is I think that Steve is taking what the defense is giving him. You cant ask the guy to do more than that. If you want MORE transition game it has to be a team effort to get mroe rebounds, more defense stops, etc. Bad defense and poor rebounding has led to few transition baskets. ------------------ "There are some frauds so well conducted that it would be stupidity not to be deceived by them." Charles Caleb Colton (1780-1832)
heyp, I read your topic as criticism of Steve, I just responded to it. As for the transition game, I do believe the pg should be the catalyst, but sometimes the Rockets look lost out there. I don't know if teams play GREAT transition D against us, or we're just confused. Other then Steve, I don't think our players are particularly fast at any position. BTW, how did I respond with bias ? ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
Sorry, I went into rapid response mode for a second to try to steer the thread away from all-too-so-common topics, and did not completely respond to you. I agree totally with your quote there. But, that pretty much defines the difference between a SG and a PG, though. My point is that Francis does not completely think like what you say (which I agree with). I mean, he does not seem to have that "i need to get people involved" mentality when a transition opportunity presents itself. He simply does not run enough transition. Watch him, he too often releases to the wing expecting some other point guard or something to get the outlet and throw him an ESPN slammer, rather than fighting the the defender to the middle to get the outlet pass himself and force the transition down there throat. People yell...I want LESS MOBLEY....I yell....I WANT MORE TRANSITION. Show me the Horses!! Stevie, I'm paying big bucks to see you run the Horses and Kenny Smith is kicking your ass!
Now that is a good question! Remember, Mango is my info-mercenary hero on this BBS. So be prepared for me to remember the history of what other's have said. And last night you said "Come on guys. I'm the biggest Cat detractor there is, but he ain't that bad. He just needs to know his role." That comment actually inspired my post here, and my "with bias" comment. Hey gr8-1...I'm just having fun with you and wanting to challenge you here!!
You're right, heyp, I am biased against Cat. I think he's a great guy, and will root for him cuz he's a Rocket, but I just don't like his game. But, you're right. He's a shooting guard, and he may just do what Rudy tells him to. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
so gr8-1...you are still skirting the question...hehe: Is Stevie a better PG than Cat is a SG? And if so, explain why Francis doesn't look to get his horses running at every opportunity. We are very fast at every position. Why Stevie...Why not run...gettyup I'm willing to bet that our precentage of defensive rebounds to transition pushes is the lowest in the league (aside from the Cavs slow-mo ball).
Praise the Lord! I have someone to relate in heypartner. Francis's inability to create more fast break opportunities is frustrating me. I don't know how many times I see him have an opportunity to push the tempo only to walk the ball up the court. BUT what frustrates me more than his inability to push the tempo, is his inability to convert fast break opportunities into points. For the most part, he is either going to take it all the way, pass it to Mobley, or stop at the free throw line and make a bad attempt at being Jason Williams. If he only had a little more Andre Miller in him....pushing the break and making the right pass...at the same time delivering the pass where it gives his teammates ample opportunity to doing something with it. I just wish he made more correct choices on the break. I don't know how many times I have seen someone snowbird just ahead of the field, but Stevie refuses to deliver any ball until he himself has pushed that ball pass the mid court stripe. By the time he pushes it into the front court, the fleeting window of opportunity is gone. Damn it Stevie, put a little Kidd in your game and fire a long zip pass. And why the hell does steve always choose Mobley when he is pushing the ball in the middle and Mobes and Anderson are on the wing. I counted at 3 times in the last 5 games when he could have delivered it to Shandon for the easy two, but chose Mobley for the difficult, acrobatic layup. ARGHRRRR!! And I'm tired of Stevie freezing Shandon Anderson out of the offense. DAMN IT! It pisses me off(even though, I do admit the last two games he has improved on it). Shandon is always making some great cuts towards the basket and Stevie RARELY finds him. I always have this feeling in my stomach that freakin' John Stockton would have zipped it in there for the easy two, but not Stevie. I'm not sure if Steve is incapable of getting in there, scared to get it in there, or making the wrong decision of not getting it in there. And if would stop waving Shandon's ass out of the post, I would be a better man in life. Give Shandon the damn ball. Give it to him down low in the post for once in your life. And only if Steve showed some more CONSISTENT INTENSITY at the defensive end. Fight through the ******* SCREEN for once. And why is his man always losing Stevie off the ball for the easy, open jumper. I'll save Steve's defensive ineptitude for some other time. By the way, I love Stevie to death. I think he could be something truly special, if only he would make a few subtle adjustments to his game. People tend to be the most critical on the one's we care for the most. With that said, I'm hoping Francis is selected for the All Star team. He deserves it. But I have a feeling Stockton and Finley are going to get the last two guard spots. And I have a few choice words for Mobley too. But I will save that for another time also. [This message has been edited by Da Man (edited January 07, 2001).]
I may catch some flack for this statement, but here goes. I think the Rockets would be better off in the long run to trade Cat for someone like Dickerson. That would force Francis to become the go to guy & would probably accelerate his development as the PG. He wouldn't be looking for Cat as his first option everytime & would probably spread the ball around more. That would make our offense less predictable. While Cat has the quickest first step in the league & wants to be the man with the ball in his hands at crunch time, he tends to hog the ball & in my opinion, is stunting Francis's development. When the PG demands the ball & a player ignores him, that's not good. The PG is supposed to be the leader on the floor. Unfortunately, that all comes back on Rudy. He needs to be a little more forceful & not quite as much of a players coach. As far as Stevie running the wing, either that's the way Rudy has designed the play or once again, Rudy needs to put his foot down & correct the problem. For all those that think we would lose Francis if we traded Cat, I disagree. I think that Francis is more mature than that & has a pretty good understanding of business. He'd probably take charge of his team. As long as Cat is the perceived go to guy, I don't think that Francis will take charge of this team in the way that he needs to. If I could only have one of these two players, I would choose Francis. ------------------
wow...now I feel like it is all worth it. A "Da Man" appearance, and only the 4th this season in this forum! We want more transition and more DA MAN! But not Shandon in the low post...lol!
Heypartner, I guess I didn't answer your question. I'd have to say, that at this time, Cat is a better SG than Francis is a PG, for all the reasons that I stated in my previous post. Also, Cat has an extra year of experience on Francis. I think that, unless Cat learns to pass the ball more often, he's probably as good as he's going to get. That's my story & I'm sticking to it. ------------------
yup...yup..yup.yup you're going to "catch flake" with that one. You see, I don't think in terms of rating individual players like you do. I rate the team's complete ability to do various team things. Our transition development is being stunted by Francis by his lack of wanting to run it. He wants to do Mobley and Shandon's role on the wing. Well, being that Mobley's development clearly is accelerating each year more than Francis, maybe we should trade Francis for someone who will stop stunting the development of our transition game. Run the horses FRANCIS! gettyup!
Okay, I'll modify my statement just a bit. Cat is not stunting Francis's development intentionally, but Steve has become too loyal to him on the court. So, I guess the true blame is Francis's, because he looks for Cat before he looks for anyone else. I believe that those are his words or something to that effect. As far as Steve not pushing the ball up the court, then Rudy needs to get on him about it. As far as Steve running the wing & not the middle, while I don't know how the play is designed to be run, I would think that Rudy would be going ballistic if Steve kept running the play incorrectly. My guess is that the play is designed to run that way. If Cat ever starts to pass the ball without hesitation when he doesn't have the shot, instead of trying to take his man one on one, he'll become one of the greatest SG in the league. If he's the guy that Rudy wants to take the shot, then he needs to pass the ball when he's covered & move to another open spot. If the other guys move the ball around until he gets open, then he can take the last shot everytime. I'd have no problem with him taking the last shot under those circumstances. Until then, he's as good as he's going to get. ------------------
heypartner, I mean we've bashed everybody on the rockets this year, did you just want to find a reason for Steve to be the whipping boy this week? Our transistion game isnt all Steve's fault. Our big men are poor rebounders and most importantly they are poor outletters. Whenever they rebound they dont get the ball to Steve fast enough to get a good fast break going.I also, disagree with your assumption that Steve is ALWAYS going to the wing looking for the ESPN slam like you say. He does fill the lane if another guard gets the ball and tries to fill the lane which is what you are supposed to do. Our poor transition game can't be blamed entirely on Steve. The rocks are just a bad transistion TEAM right now. I agree though I would love to see more fast break basketball with the horses we have but until Rudy gets that into their heads more it's not gonna happen. You should be more critical of the coaching staff than of any one particular player ------------------
