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Crucifix masturbation film wins special jury prize at Venice Film Festival

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    [​IMG]

    A special jury prize was awarded to Austrian director Ulrich Seidl for his controversial exploration of religion and oppression, “Paradise: Faith."

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-mn-venice-film-awards-20120908,0,36455.story

    And a comment on that:

    Carroll: A double standard on hurt religious feelings

    Did you hear about the movie in which a Catholic woman masturbates with a crucifix?
    You didn't? "Paradise: Faith" won a special jury prize at this year's Venice Film Festival.
    Suffice it to say this movie about a "self-flagellating Roman Catholic woman married to a paraplegic Muslim," as The New York Times described it, may be as much of a provocation to some Catholics as the anti-Muhammad film by the mysterious "Sam Bacile" is to Muslims.
    And in fact some Catholics have complained, including a group in Italy that accused the Austrian director of blasphemy.
    Needless to say, however, they didn't riot, light street fires or storm the Austrian embassy. They didn't promise to hunt down the filmmakers and execute them. And not to belabor the obvious, but you can bet that when "Paradise: Faith" is released next year in the U.S., the reaction will be equally tame.
    It's not that violent reactions to provocative writings, art or film are unknown outside the Muslim world. Two years ago, a woman used a crowbar to destroy an exhibit at the Loveland Museum/Gallery that critics maintained depicted Jesus in a sex act.
    According to an art dealer witness, the woman — who'd come all the way from Montana on her mission — was screaming "How can you desecrate my Lord?" as she wielded her weapon.
    But vandals like Kathleen Folden are rare. Most of those disgusted by the Loveland exhibit simply sent e-mails or protested peacefully with signs.
    Meanwhile, the artist, Stanford University's Enrique Chagoya, never felt he had to go into hiding for fear of his life. And it almost goes without saying that the U.S. government never felt obliged to intervene by lecturing the artist and museum about religious sensitivities.
    Yet when Muslim extremists threaten violence over some real or perceived artistic or cultural slight, the response can be very different. Washington officials not only sometimes validate the grievance but go on to claim — falsely — that they defend religious sensibilities across the board.
    Moreover, this hypocrisy is a bipartisan reflex. During the orchestrated riots six years ago over publication of Muhammad caricatures in a Danish newspaper, the Bush administration dutifully declared the cartoons "offensive," expressed sympathy with Muslim indignation and suggested it would feel the same way about cartoons ridiculing any faith.
    And as we also know, when a film of California origin enraged Muslims this week, the U.S. embassy in Cairo issued a statement saying it "condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims — as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions."
    The last part of that statement is rubbish. U.S. diplomats do not make a practice of condemning attempts to offend believers of religions other than Islam. Nor should they. They have enough to do without acting as universal judge of what constitutes an "abuse" of free speech — the label the embassy rushed to apply to the anti-Muhammad video.
    U.S. officials should and do of course condemn attempts to persecute believers of any faith, but that is very different. Indeed, the State Department publishes a first-rate report every year on the state of international religious freedom, cataloging the many ways it is violated in scores of nations.
    We'll know the world has crossed an important threshold and that Islam no longer harbors millions of believers of brutal and archaic intolerance when U.S. officials no longer feel obliged to adopt a double standard regarding hurt religious feelings.
    We'll know that a new dawn has arrived when a 14-minute movie trailer of "almost comically amateurish production values," to quote The New York Times, remains as obscure to the general public as "Paradise: Faith."

    http://www.denverpost.com/carroll/ci_21538143/carroll-double-standard-hurt-religious-feelings

    ---------------------

    Can you imagine what would have happened if instead of a crucifix that the woman masturbates with it would have been a "Prophet Mohammad bobblehead, special edition"?

    Where are Carl Herrera and Franchise Blade and the Muslim Brigade, condemning this and saying the director of this film is "just as hateful" as the people storming embassies?

    The silence is deafening.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    very tasteless film to be sure, but I don't see any embassies being attacked.

    nice call on highlighting their hypocrisy.
     
  3. HombreDeHierro

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    sounds like beautiful art

    10/10
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

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    Not for that butt in the picture.
     
  5. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Film on the death of the Austrian ambassador at 11. Or not.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Surely they could have found a better looking actress? ;)
     
  7. Don FakeFan

    Don FakeFan Member

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    Is that Woman the mother of God?
     
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    I didn't call Nakoula hateful, I called him an ass clown who made a stupid film and lied about both the film and himself. I also called him a fraud and a meth cook. I am not sure what the guy's intent is. Probably has something to do with legitimate beef that Copts have over being oppressed by members of the Muslim majority in Egypt.

    I suspect that a less stupid blasphemous film may still get a violent reaction in the Muslim world-- just ask Rushdie about the fatwa. To be clear, nobody thinks attacks on diplomats or even the makers of "blasphemous" material is justified, be they Rushdie, Theo Van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Danish paper or Nakoula. However, the film you make being offensive to Muslims or anyone else does not exempt you from being called an ass clown and fraud when you are one.
     
  9. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Also, western liberal democracies having a more mature reaction to a film and on the topic of free speech than countries recently (or are still) ruled by illiberal authoritarians is hardly shocking. The only way this kind of stuff will improve is through more experience with democratic governance as well as international affairs. One thing we do know is that keeping people under authoritarians is not a good long term solution toward helping them become more tolerant of such things. 30 years of Mubarak didn't solve the religious fanaticism problem.
     
  10. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Except that the ones who are calling him an ass clown (like Susan Rice) are generally doing so to distract from the pathologies that mar Muslim societies. It's just lame ass excuse making.
     
  11. Northside Storm

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    The majority of Christians have been used to having their faiths balenced by secular liberal democracies, and have repressed the crazy we're seeing in the Middle East.

    Which is not to say that it was an instant "yay democracy" fix. Hell, the vestiges of repressive religion still resound in the Republican social conservative agenda, and the denial of rights, for example, to homosexuals. It was a very gradual process.

    I am glad Muslims might be able to benefit from the same, and even if it might be a gradual process, I am proud that the Arab Spring has at least started to the point where things like democracy, rule of law and etc. might become part of the vernacular in the Middle East. A generation or two later, seperation of church and state might be possible, and a secular balence between protected free speech and offending the sensibilites of others might be considered. Hell, America was only two or so generations away from whites lynching blacks, segregating them away in schools, whites killing and mutilating a black child for winking at a white woman and etc. to electing a black president, and I don't think there's anything that special about Americans.
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

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    Nobody calling him an ass clown is excusing the behavior of those that stormed U.S. embassies, or killed a U.S. ambassador.

    If you believe that's not true, please provide the link.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    How did it beat Man Getting Hit by Football?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    That's exactly what they are doing. They are trying to make this about the filmmaker than about the inherent violence of Muslims.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    So if some radical Christians were to storm Austrian embassies around the world now because of this film and were to kill an Austrian ambassador...

    ...how would our resident leftists react?

    Let me guess:

    They would say "These guys are nutcases, no wonder with the repressed sexuality coming out of the Catholic church".

    I doubt they would say...

    DOUBLE STANDARD FTW.
     
  16. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    What you are doing is the equivalent of going into a 9/11 thread right after 9/11 and making posts about how immoral America is. Your actions these past few days have been nothing short of disgusting. Get a clue.

    You pretending like you give a **** about a meth cook posting a youtube video insulting Islam is pathetic.
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Do you think there is something in the DNA of Muslims that makes violence more 'inherent' for them than other human beings?
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
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    did someone say crucifix masturbation?

    <iframe width="960" height="720" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tQfDNh0nP-g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    #18 basso, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  19. FranchiseBlade

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    Wrong. It's possible to acknowledge the criminal who made the film insulting Muslims was wrong, and is a jerk as well as go after those that killed our ambassador. It isn't an either/or situation.

    I have no idea why some are desperate to make it one.
     
  20. QdoubleA

    QdoubleA Member

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    that is an unfortunate ass...
     

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