craZy cluEs ...

I thought it valuable, since there is so much to read and review, to cull the different posts that brought us to this point of madness.
<OL>
[*] <font color="#003366">Tacoma Park Legend</font> <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010321.html">posted January 05, 2001 05:51 PM:</a> "I was just watching the NBA beat and they had the rockets spanish radio play by play man who said the rockets were in trade talks about acquring a young power forward who would help us alot with our rebounding. He couldnt reveal the players name because he got the information from a rockets source high up in the organization.There's been alot of trade talk on this board about Shareef but from what he said it doesnt seem like Abdur Rahim they are going after. What young, rebounding power forward are the rockets going after? Any thoughts?"

[*]<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> reacted January 05, 2001 08:30 PM:

So he said they were targeting a player specifically or just generally that the Rockets are trying to acquire a young power forward (as in they are always trying, but nothing is on the burner)?

If I had to take a guess mine too would be Jerome Williams. Other names that would fit: (no, not saying the respective teams are willing to part with these players, just that they all fit the mold of young rebounder)

Ben Wallace, Antoine Walker, Aaron Williams, Theo Ratliff, Raef LaFrentz, Tony Battie, Othella Harrington, Lorenzen Wright

Not necessarily young, but: Antonio Davis, Clarence Weatherspoon, Bo Outlaw, Dale Davis

[*]<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> posted January 05, 2001 11:56 PM: It's not Jerome Williams. That's the only thing I know 100%.

There's a lid very tight on this because talks have already cooled. I have no idea who it is, but this is legit: there is (or was) a "who".

I wish I knew more... I really, really do.

[*]<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> posted January 06, 2001 11:52 AM: I'm told it's not Dallas. They may have had some talks with them but this rumor apparently isn't them (though Harvey makes the most sense as a young rebounder).

I'm starting to believe very strongly it's Othella Harrington. Three-way with Vancouver/Chicago with Houston being the smallest player? Othella to Houston. Bibby to Chicago...

No idea if that is accurate or not but it is the best one I've heard so far.

[*]<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> posted January 06, 2001 03:44 PM: I don't think it's Othella either anymore, so scratch that. Got that shot down. I don't have a flippin' clue who it is.

heypartner -- I didn't ask. I don't think they would tell me if the team was right, but it not being Dallas seemed pretty clear. I'm not trying to shoot down your info because it sounds like it has a ton of merit and could very well have been discussed for all I know... I'm just trying to find out who or what is going on. Trust me though -- I'm not right everytime.

Anyhow, I'll wait until I get something more solid than the last one before I post here...

[*]<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> posted January 06, 2001 06:58 PM I would think Vancouver is in there somewhere... from newspaper reports they spoke with 14 teams the other day and are "seriously" talking with 10 of them (damn that's some serious talking)

Othella, Shareef... Stromile Swift?

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> revealed January 06, 2001 08:19 PM: I met with Doc Rocket, who was in Austin today. A deal is going to go down. Brace yourselves. May still be a week or more and some things still have to go down but a handshake deal is in place. It was implied to me who was in the deal but I can't say and I don't know all involved. This is not the original deal discussed in this thread. I retract all my comments previously in this thread...

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> then hinted something with this post on the front page January 7, 2001 7:18 PM:

Conditions of Bulls Bryce Drew pick revealed

We've known all along the Rockets would get possibly a first round pick in exchange for Bryce Drew, who they <a href="news.cfm?NewsID=408">dealt to the Bulls back in September</a>, and if not they would receive 2 second rounders from Chicago. However the conditions weren't known, but the Chicago Daily Tribune, in <a href="http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/main_story.asp?intID=3689827">an article about the Bulls possibly dealing their first round pick</a>, explains that the Rockets are owed a first round pick from Chicago if it is not in the top 20 this summer (2001), not in the top 19 in 2002 or not in the top 18 in 2003. The Bulls, the worst team in the league, would have to get pretty damn good pretty fast, which is unlikely. If none of the conditions are met, the Rockets receive 2 second rounders.

[*]<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> again hinted on the front page with this article January 9, 2001 11:39 AM:
Make playoffs? Cough up draft pick to Vancouver

Very <a href="http://www.vancouversun.com/newsite/sports/010109/5070192.html">interesting article in the Vancouver Sun</a> today. You'll recall the Rockets owe the Grizzlies a first round pick from the <a href="feature.cfm?FeatureID=24">Steve Francis-for-Michael Dickerson/Othella Harrington swap</a> back in August of 1999. The Rockets had until 2002 to give that pick up, however, if the Rockets make the playoffs, they have to turn that draft pick over to Vancouver or give the Grizzlies an acquired top 15 pick or a pick within two of Houston's slot. Said Vancouver GM Dick Versace bluntly, "You should be rooting for them to make the playoffs - we are." Versace also noted the Rockets, through other trades, are likely to wind up with three picks this year (possibly from picks owed by Milwaukee, Detroit and/or Orlando). If the Rocks don't make the playoffs, they have the option of conveying a top 15 pick to Vancouver in 2002 or 2003.

[*]and again <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> posts an article on the front page January 9, 2001 1:59 PM:

Hakeem goes on Injured List, Collier activated

Hakeem Olajuwon was placed on the Injured List on Tuesday and rookie Jason Collier came off the IL in his place, exactly one month after going on the list following knee surgery. Said Collier, "I feel pretty good. They don't want me rushing back into it and doing something else and being out for the whole season. I know they care about me, and that makes me feel good, but it's eating me up because I want to play." Earlier reports suggested Hakeem may be upset since he feels ready to play, but Hakeem said he was fine with their decision on the radio earlier Tuesday. Olajuwon will miss a minimum of 5 games.

[*] Then <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">ROCKET RICH NYC</font> posted January 11, 2001 12:30 PM: "Last night, while making my rounds around the clubs in New York City. I spotted Cuttino Mobley, Steve Francis, and Moochie Norris at this club called Sacci(41st and Broadway-near Time Square). As far as I could see, they were just chillin' and hanging out no drinking. I would like to first say...no more GAY posts about Steve and Cuttino please. They were with some really HOT women hanging out in the VIP area. Evidently, Steve Francis was at the Mass vs. N.C. game last night but left at halftime to come back to NYC. A lot of celebs from the Hip Hop world were there - Jay Z, Missy Elliott, to name a few. A total music industry crowd having a good time. Don't worry, they left pretty early so you can bet they will be ready for gametime. As for me, I left the club around 3am. I did hear some basketball talk. Nothing really new except that the word on the street is that DREAM wants to leave the Rockets. His top choices are Miami, Phoenix, Vancouver, and the Lakers. He is definitely going to try to play next year elsewhere unless Houston PAYS him $$$. It breaks my heart to hear that because he's my favorite player. I hear he really is not happy and he's out of touch with the other players. There is an interest for Dream from New York - although I hear Dream would NEVER play for New York. Thank goodness. Other tidbits...
Although New York wants Webber badly, some people have mentioned that Webber is considering ALL options - including Houston. Hearsay - He likes Houston. More than likely, word on the street is he will stay in SAC. It's all about the $$$$. As far as a Rockets trade in the works, something seems to be going down but nobody at the club would talk. Sorry guys, I tried to find something.
I'll be at the game tonight and will try to snoop around MSG."

when some guys questioned the validity of his comments,

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> posted January 11, 2001 12:52 PM: "Thanos -- I wouldn't be so quick to jump ROCKET RICH NYC... he's passing along info from an experience we wouldn't know about otherwise.
RRN -- thanks for passing that along. Don't doubt it in the slightest."

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">ROCKET RICH NYC</font> then posted January 11, 2001 05:41 PM: "Nothing really that new but when I asked around about the Dream situation, here's what I was told. Dream wants out but the Rockets organization are afraid to let go of him in fear of public backlash. They don't want a PR nightmare. To Dream and to all these players...its all about the $$$$. Don't believe for one minute that these players are trying to play for the love of the game yadda yadda yadda. Even when Dream's contract expires, the Rockets are afraid to NOT renew his contract because of the possible Fan reaction. Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they knew for sure the fans wouldn't be mad to let go of Dream, I'm sure it makes their decision a lot easier to deal with. At any rate, it appears the Dream is ready to pack his bags and go somewhere else. It's kinda sad because he knows he's gonna get paid either way. He has the Rockets by the balls and he knows it. Well, I'm off to MSG. Report later tonight."

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">DaryleWard</font> posted January 13, 2001 02:03 PM: "Hey I just got back from Compaq center and interviewing the guys. So here are some of your answers to your questions you had. ...

"To Tim Franks: What are the truths to any trade rumors between the Rockets and another team mainly the Vancouver Grizzilies?

Tim: Oh no, there isn't nothing behind any of those rumors like the one about SAR mainly because Vancouver would also want to send Mr. Reeves and his albatross salary. With the team we have here we really can't fit any trades in for the main reasons of capspace."[/i]

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010477.html">titilated us January 14, 2001 01:18 AM:</a>

The leaks and rumblings have begun ... hang on folks. Going to be an interesting ride this week:
------------------------------

<a href="http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0114nbacol.html">Olajuwon may try to hang on</a>

<FONT face="Arial" size="4">Olajuwon may try to hang on</FONT>
Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 14, 2001

After suffering from respiratory problems that landed him on the injured list for a good part of last season, Houston's Hakeem Olajuwon was prepared to make this his last season.

But Olajuwon's breathing isn't a problem anymore, and he has hinted that he might like to stick around. However, "The Dream" was placed on Houston's injured list last week because of a cyst in his right knee - a move that seemed to catch him by surprise - and there are rumblings that he might like to finish his career with another team.

"If I didn't want to play, I wouldn't be practicing," Olajuwon said when he learned he was placed on the injured list. He later said the team was just trying to be cautious.

One wonders.

No doubt, the Rockets probably would accommodate him if it meant getting out from under the $16.4 million Olajuwon will be paid this season. The rumor is that Olajuwon, who will turn 38 this month, believes he can play a couple more seasons and would like to do it in a warm climate.

Hmmmm.

Would the Suns make a deal? Not likely, considering what they'd have to give up to take on that kind of salary for a player whose future is questionable. But Olajuwon apparently understands that his market value isn't what it once was, and he might be willing to play a couple of seasons for a third of his current salary.

The question is, does Olajuwon have any game left?

The Suns would much rather have Dikembe Mutombo, despite his limited offensive skills, but that seems like a long shot, too.

The rumor mill surrounding Mutombo has quieted, but discussions still are going on. A league source said Vancouver offered Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Bryant "Big Country Gravy" Reeves to the Hawks for Mutombo, Roshown McLeod and a first-round draft pick.

The Hawks apparently rejected the offer because they wanted lottery protection for the draft pick.

But it's apparent the Grizzlies are looking for a deal. It's no coincidence that Reeves started, got 39 showcase minutes and scored 31 points Friday against Seattle. The Grizzlies need to get a draft pick because they must give Detroit a pick among the top 18 this year. If they don't, the Pistons get Vancouver's first-rounder in 2002, and it's only protected if it falls among the top five. If that pick is among the top five, the Pistons would get Vancouver's 2003 pick unless it's the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

Stay tuned.

[*] newly (and thankfully) banned <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">NewGuy</font> posted January 14, 2001 03:32 PM: Clutch Wrong: No Deal Imminent This is very dissapointing IMO but Clutch is wrong, there is no imminent or handshake deal with the Rockets.

A source within the Rockets organization told me that like always, there is a lot of talk going on, but nothing is anywhere close to being done. He specifically said that everything being said on those websites is completely false."

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> reacted January 14, 2001 04:46 PM:

Thanks for the defense guys... actually did you see that "brace yourself" comment turn in to Garnett and Shaq? Now that was funny.

I regret saying those two words. They were blown way out of proportion. Personally when I heard what was going on I thought it fit but it was overblown and imaginations ran wild.

I knew if it really did take a "week or more" that one or two would try to call me on it. NewGuy could have passed along what he heard without trying to embarrass me, but he didn't. As "DaFranchise", he's had problems in the past and the <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000348.html">pansy ass</a> is only looking to stir up problems or trying to get me to say more.

I've got information from a proven legitimate source -- the best one the page has ever had -- and I'm sticking to it. Everything he has said up to this point has made perfect sense. This does not go on the front page because it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff you can't put a finger completely on, but I do like to let the BBS gang know about it as I find out. I always have. I want to know everything just as badly as everyone else. If something drastically changes I promise I will let you know and if it's for the worse, I will take my lumps for getting any hopes up.

[*] then <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010490.html"> reiterated in his now infamous "LISTEN"</a> post January 14, 2001 04:28 PM:

Doc Rocket and I said that a deal was going to be done. A deal is going to be done. When I said that this was not the original trade that was posted, that's what I meant. I never said a trade was going to happen. I said a deal was in place. What kind of deal? Patience! Patience! I know for a fact that Doc Rocket knows what's goin' down, however, he has not told me specifically - it's been implied. That's all I'll say on this until mid-week.

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Jeff</font> posts January 14, 2001 09:09 PM:

NewGuy: Please shut up. How often has Clutch gone out and said something about a trade, a free agent move or anything else without it happening? Name one.

Look, everyone knows that I know people with the Rockets because of my dealings with SOR - one still owes me dinner and I hope she is reading this . I still talk to them off an on for various reasons and I can tell you for a fact that Clutch is NOT making this up. This is completely and totally legitimate. No if's, and's or but's.

After hearing this originally, I spoke to a few people I know and, while they didn't confirm anything, they gave me information that confirmed something was going on. I'm not even sure what IT is to be totally honest but I know it isn't bull****.

Now, who the hell knows if anything will happen? It is impossible to predict anything because these situations are complex and delicate. I'm certain there have been plenty of near-trades, free agent signings, in-house issues, etc. in the Rockets past that never made the news or reached any of us.

Oh, if only we could be a fly on the wall of Carroll Dawson or Rudy T's office!

All I can say is that Clutch would never mention anything if he wasn't certain something was going on and a real possibility. No one can know anything is certain, but Clutch is concerned about his rep and wouldn't jeopardize that with heresay. End of story.

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> shows up January 14, 2001 09:36 PM and teases us with:

Merrily, Merrily, Merrily, Merrily...

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> dares Doc Rocket to tell us more January 14, 2001 09:40 PM:

LOL! So cruel. So Doc... how about hitting Member status tonight? You're just 2 posts away ...

Make 'em good

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Jeff</font> chimes in January 14, 2001 09:49 PM:

Nice, Doc. Very nice.

vince: I don't think any of us would be talking about this if it weren't a pretty good bet. This is making me pretty crazy at the moment too!

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> toys with us January 14, 2001 10:03 PM:

2 more posts to become a member of the highly-touted CLUTCHCITY BBS...hmmm....

I can't think of anything to talk about...

Did that arena thing ever pass?

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> chants in his best Martin Luther King imitation January 14, 2001 10:57 PM:

Member at last! Member at last! Thank God I'm a member at last!

Here's something that's a fact - only Dawson knows what's going down. However, some people know something's going down! Clutch knows...kinda! Hopefully, it will be revealed mid-week, however, if it's not, the scenarios that could've been will be coming.

PR, bickering, name calling, thank goodness that this BBS doesn't have a set number of posters, otherwise, something would have to be done to accommodate me when I became a member!!! Hmm..who would get left off the BBS?

NIKEstrad - Cato is here. Things went terribly wrong. However, things can always be corrected if you ask someone nicely. The question is have we asked nicely enough?

I can tell you this - I've heard three VERY specific scenarios as to what the immediate future could be. I do not know if these have changed or not. I do know one that has been taken off the table by the other team which would've been a ASS-KICKER for us...I can't believe the other team instigated it. Corrections were almost made!! ;(

There is a HUGE delimna as to whether the team makes a move for the immediate future or do they make a move for the IMMEDIATE future immediately? Do we risk the million for $100,000? It's gonna tricky and it could get messy!!

Hold on...

[*] As he was getting ready for bed, <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> revealed January 14, 2001 11:04 PM:

usGeez..that was pretty easy! I just closed my eyes, thought of a Baywatch chick, and typed at a constant pace. I may have hit the keys too hard every now and then but otherwise, it felt great.

Crap...wrong BBS!!!!

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> posted January 15, 2001 10:37 AM to a bunch of posters with bags under their eyes:

When you brace yourself for something, you have two options - one, it's a great present, some chick likes you, got a HUGE raise, etc... or two - it's an earthquake, a big bad earthquake!

Don't sound so cheery all the time...you never know when she's gonna break up with you for someone else!!

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> woke up from a dream and posted January 15, 2001 02:31 PM:

CLUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU b*stard LIAR!!!!!! You told them it was Thomas Hamilton and Venson Hamilton and Rodman for Moochie.
" I trusted you!! I trusted you!! " - James Dean The Movie

[*] a wired <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Achebe</font> posts January 15, 2001 03:41 PM:

doc's lurking & laughing.

If Dream had to move, it would consist of one of the following scenarios, right?

1) Dream is bought/out or waived. He can still sign w/ a contender.
2) Dream is traded to a contender.
3) Dream is traded to a team for salary cap & luxury tax reasons.
4) Both 3 and 4.

Which scenarios do you guys really, truly think are going to happen?

1) What's the point? To be nice?

2) Portland or New York or Phoenix.
Why would Portland trade for Dream? It makes no sense. New York might trade b/c they still have Allan Houston about to opt out... and they still don't like the fact that they can't keep Camby on the floor.

Neither Portland or NY are in warm climates, which Dream acts like is a requirement for his willingness to depart Houston.

Phoenix scares me. I hate Googs. I hate Penny. Go away, go away, go away. Phew, at least now we know it won't be Phoenix.

3) Which team wants to stop loosing 10s of millions of dollars a year? Vancouver rings a bell. They also need a top 18er to pay Detroit. Reeves has played better than usual lately, so perhaps this isn't as scary as... I can't remember what the scarey trade was, nevermind.

4) Orlando. They could compete w/ Dream this year, and they'd get out of Hill's crux of a contract. However, his ankle is probably going to be okay, so I doubt this would ever happen.

[*] hoping Doc was listening, <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Achebe</font> debates with <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Hottoddie</font> January 15, 2001 at 04:09 PM:

I like that when you dream, you dream big.

But remember:

Do the Rockets see through their rebuilding process, or take a more aggressive and active stance (i.e. Does the team risk cap space for a potential trade win now? Does the team risk a chance at Webber during the summer for a chance at player(s)x now?)?

Again:

You don't say that if you're contemplating a superstar like KG. You say that if you're about to trade away one of your few tradeable commodities (Dream) for something that may not pay off in huge shares... if it does at all.

Now again, what trade out there would be a risk? I can think of several. There are two that scare me the most.

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> posts January 15, 2001 at 04:14 PM

Cap space is a beautiful thing.......

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Achebe</font> responds January 15, 2001 04:23 PM:

or to maintain.

or to acquire.

[*] sneezingly, <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> says January 15, 2001 04:25 PM:

Ahh.....Achebe - a thinking man for a thinking generation.

<font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">(editorial comment: Hey, that was actually funny at 4 in the morning...)</font>

[*] Then this morning, <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Doc Rocket</font> warns us with his <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010529.html">Topic: Situation Becoming Unclear!</a>

It appears that Cato's injury may have caused more trouble than initially thought. Investigating...

I hope monkey wrench does not become the word of the day...well, maybe I do a little! I can't help it - I'm sentimental!!

[*] <font face="arial" size="2" color="#003366">Clutch</font> clarified January 16, 2001 01:58 PM:

I don't know of Cato being involved in anything, but I did fear last night his injury (2 weeks... meaning he will most likely go on the IR) could do something. The question is does Cato go on and Hakeem off the IR now tomorrow? Wish I knew more on that ...
[/list=a]

... on the hunt ...


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the more I know, the more I know I don't know...

[This message has been edited by Sherlock (edited January 17, 2001).]

 

Well, the pieces of the puzzle are coming together. If you haven't read on other posts, here's the first pieces:

<OL>[*]<font color="#003366">Dream</font> is asking to be either traded or released, according to: <a href="http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2001/0116/1019953.html">AP and ESPN</a>

[*] Dream and management are working the PR machine to make sure no one thinks Dream is being disrespected. If a trade has already been agreed upon, the Rockets greatest concern is fan reaction, so this has to be done gingerly. It is important that Dream show he wants to go, but not demanding it either.

[*] There has already been a trade that was in the works with Phoenix for Penny Hardaway, Cliff Robinson and one of the Suns' reserve centers, likely Daniel Santiago or Ruben Garces, <a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/797847">according to the Houston Chronicle,</a> which Houston quickly turned down, due to taking on salaries they don't want. I doubt this is the one that fell through, that Doc was referring to. In coming days, I'm sure we'll either here the one they actually do, and hear about more possibilities they woulda/coulda/shoulda...

[*] According to <font color="#003366">Clutch,</font> from his post on the front page January 16, 2001 10:04 PM: News is out: Hakeem wants trade or be renounced This is no secret to those who have been hitting reload on the BBS untl 3am every night for the past 10 days, but Hakeem has now let the secret out and the news networks are picking up on the story: Hakeem Olajuwon wants to be traded or waived. Hakeem says he wants what is best for the Rockets. There have been several trade scenarios over the past while that have been considered, but the Rockets overall feel the cap space Hakeem's contract will clear this summer is the most vital. Our gut feeling? <font color="#990000"> Olajuwon will be waived,</font> clearing the way for the greatest player the franchise has ever known to sign with the Heat, Suns or possibly the Lakers. That is speculation, but Hakeem definitely wants out. And thank God this news is now official because I and my source were getting so much flack we were starting to doubt.

[/list=a]

... why does it seem to me that there is more here than meets the eye, my friends ... my intuition tells me this is just the first few pieces of the puzzle. Its getting interesting!

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the more I know, the more I know I don't know...

[This message has been edited by Sherlock (edited January 17, 2001).]