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Court rules teens not always entitled to Miranda rights

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Stack24, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Stack24

    Stack24 Member

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    I don't think this is very fair and should be based on age. Just cuase your younger doesn't mean you can't have the same rights. Anyone not like this?

    Court rules teens not always entitled to Miranda rights
    By DAVID G. SAVAGE
    Los Angeles Times

    WASHINGTON -- The police need not always warn a teenage crime suspect of his rights before formally questioning him, the Supreme Court said Tuesday.

    The 5-4 ruling gives police a bit more leeway to question suspects without giving them the famous Miranda warnings, and it says a suspect's youth is not reason enough to treat him with more caution.

    The decision upholds the second-degree murder conviction of a Los Angeles County man who was 17 at the time of the crime.

    Michael Alvarado was charged with being an accessory to the 1995 killing of a truck driver at a shopping mall in the Los Angeles suburb of Santa Fe Springs. He was convicted based on tape-recorded comments he made during an interview with a Los Angeles County sheriff's detective.

    At issue in the Supreme Court was whether those comments should have been excluded from his trial since Alvarado had not been warned of his rights.

    In the past, the court has ruled that suspects who are "in custody" of the police must be told, before being questioned, that they have rights to remain silent and to see a lawyer. People are said to be in custody when they are in the control of the police and do not feel free to leave.

    But deciding whether a suspect was in custody often comes down to a judgment call.

    On Tuesday, the high court agreed with California judges who said Alvarado was not in custody when he was questioned at a police station.

    Detective Cheryl Comstock, who was investigating the murder, had contacted Alvarado's parents and said she needed to speak with Michael. They took him out of school and to the station house. There, according to Alvarado's account, the police told his parents they would have to wait in the lobby while the detective questioned him for two hours.

    Initially, Alvarado, 17, denied knowing about the shooting. Later, he admitted to standing outside the passenger's side of the truck when, to his surprise, Paul Soto pulled out a gun and shot the driver because he had refused to give up his keys. Alvarado also admitted he later helped hide the gun.

    Soto and Alvarado were tried together, and both were convicted. Soto was sentenced to life in prison, and Alvarado got 15 years to life.

    Two years ago, however, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reversed Alvarado's conviction on the grounds that his interview with the detective should have been excluded from the trial.

    Because Alvarado was in custody of the police, he should have been warned of his rights, the three-judge panel held.

    California prosecutors appealed on behalf of the state warden. They were joined by Bush administration lawyers who said an interrogation such as this is essentially voluntary, and therefore outside the scope of the 1966 Miranda ruling.

    The Supreme Court agreed Tuesday in Yarborough v. Alvarado.

    Justice Anthony Kennedy said the 9th Circuit judges should have deferred to the California judges who initially upheld Alvarado's conviction.

    Alvarado was not arrested and taken to the station house, Kennedy noted. And he was not placed under arrest when he arrived. At the end of the interview, he was allowed to go home with his parents.

    All of this is "consistent with an interrogation environment in which a reasonable person would have felt free to terminate the interview and leave," Kennedy wrote. "A suspect's age or experience is (not) relevant to the Miranda custody analysis." He was joined by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.

    In dissent, Justice Stephen G. Breyer said: "Would a reasonable person in Alvarado's position have felt free simply to get up and walk out of the small room in the station house at will during his two-hour police interrogation? I ask the reader to put himself, or herself, in Alvarado's circumstances and then answer that question." Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg agreed with him.

    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2604532
     
  2. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    My understanding is that this is applying the same rights that older people have to those under the age of 18 rather than not giving younger people the same rights as older people.
     
  3. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    I don't care if the suspect is 17 years old or a Martian -- they deserve the same rights as anybody else. I just don't understand how taking rights away from Americans is good for anyone.
     
  4. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Not my reading. The issue, as I understand it, has to do with the definition of 'in custody'. In this case, the boy's legal guardians, his parents, were told they could not be present at an interview of their son. As a minor, this would mean they were assuming legal authority over him, and this should, in my opinion, constitute his being 'in custody'. If he was in custody, his Miranda rights should have been upheld.
     
  5. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    All of this is "consistent with an interrogation environment in which a reasonable person would have felt free to terminate the interview and leave,"

    They're saying he wasn't in custody.

    I don't like these games that the police play in these "voluntary" interviews (just like I don't like how the Dallas Police arrests people for "failure to ID" when they know that's not against the law and a violation of one's Miranda rights), but the Court agreed with the idea that this was a voluntary interview and that the kid was not in custody, therefore, he doesn't get extra rights, i.e. a Miranda warning required when he wasn't in custody. Had the Court then ruled that the kid needed to have his rights read to him that would've been giving those under 18 a right that those over 18 do not currently have.

    You can argue that everyone should have their rights read to them before ANY questioning - voluntary or otherwise, and I'd agree with you. But those folks over at the Supreme Court apparently don't agree with us.

    Now we can also argue about how stupid it is to say he wasn't in custody, but the Court is saying that he wasn't. And the police don't have to Mirandize those who are submitting "voluntarily" to questioning.

    I think the police cheated and got away with it, but this case is not taking away a right from people under 18 that people over 18 have as the original poster said.
     
  6. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    I see what you're saying, but I think a refusal to allow the minor's guardians to be present at the interview could not be interpreted in any way other than assuming legal responsibility for the boy.

    I agree that the court is not saying they came to their finding for no reason, obviously they have their reasons. I am objecting to the basis for that reason, and was disagreeing that the basis was merely a homogenization of legal rights. In order to do that you would also have to rule that minors have equal rights accross the board, which obviously isn't the case.


    I think we're essentially looking at this in a similar fashion, based on your last post.
     
  7. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Taking away someone's rights on a technicality (cough)Guantanamo(cough) is the hallmark of a short-sighted, arrogant government.
     
  8. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    So here's the thing, a 17 year old person is fully responsible for his actions helping to hide a gun (not committing the murder) and deserve 15 years in prison (which according to most studies will turn him in to a harden criminal when he comes out at age 32), but since he's under 18, he doesn't deserve the same miranda rights as an adult?

    What's wrong with the picture here?
     
  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I guess you didn't actually read the article or the thread. He got no rights taken away by his age. There was no difference in his treatment based on his age. It was just a poorly worded thread title.
     

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