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[Controversial] I feel McGrady should be our 3rd Option

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by emjohn, Oct 28, 2008.

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Who should be our 1-2-3 scoring options (ranked)?

  1. Yao-McGrady-Artest

    355 vote(s)
    44.8%
  2. McGrady-Yao-Artest

    102 vote(s)
    12.9%
  3. Yao-Artest-McGrady

    286 vote(s)
    36.1%
  4. McGrady-Artest-Yao

    22 vote(s)
    2.8%
  5. Artest-McGrady-Yao

    1 vote(s)
    0.1%
  6. Artest-Yao-McGrady

    17 vote(s)
    2.1%
  7. Other

    9 vote(s)
    1.1%
  1. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    I expect this will rankle at least a third of the BBS, so I'll try to be as clear as I can with this:

    * this is not a "T-Mac sux!" thread
    * this is not a "T-Mac should be traded!" thread

    * this is about what I think may be in the best interest of the Rockets going forward

    Why I feel this way:
    1. The primary option must be able to break down an opponent's defense with regularity. Causing a defense to break down is the means to the end for any successful offense. You can either do so with team play (passing/cutting; the Adelman offense idealized), or with an unstoppable superstar that creates opportunities by drawing double/triple teams (Dream, LeBron).
    Both Yao and Artest have shown they play well within the Adelman offense and both have shown they can break down a defense with their post play. Each year as a Rocket, McGrady has (in my eyes) grown more reluctant to attack the basket and break down a defense, increasingly prone to hang around the perimeter with or without the ball, and many here noted his disinclination to execute the Adelman offense.*
    I consider the best statistical marker of a player's ability to wreck a defense by their FTA avg. Yao over the last two years has been the best at drawing fouls (8 fta/gm despite 83% career); Ron and McGrady are similar in this regard (5.2/gm as a King, McGrady dropping each year as a Rocket to last season's 5.4 avg).

    2. Reliability as a scorer.
    You want to know your #1 is going to show up every game and give you numbers.
    I use a self-made marker for scoring consistency/reliability. I look at the percentage of games a player makes at least 2/3rds of his average or better. Everyone has good games and small-number games....but if you average 21, your team should count on you for better than 14 each night. Guys like Drew Gooden get bounced around the league despite a fair avg and numerous 20-10 games because he's just as likely to give you 7-5 the next night.
    Last season, Yao got 2/3rds or better in 82% of games played (22 ppg-->15+ points in 45 games out of 55). Artest 86%, McGrady 74%.

    3. Efficiency as a scorer.
    For efficiency, I rely on points per shot. People get bent out of shape about this sometimes, but I have yet to hear a good argument against it: if you can get your team more points with using fewer possessions (shots), you're an efficient scorer. If you need 20+ shots to get 20 points, that's not a winning formula.
    Yao, last two years: 1.44 pps. Ron, last two years: 1.24 pps. McGrady, last two years: 1.14 pps.
    I'll wedge in here that slightly less than a quarter of Ron's shots are from 3, and he's been hitting them at a 37% clip the last two years. McGrady takes slightly more than a quarter of his shots from 3, despite hitting a weak 31% the last two years (29% last year). If you're taking more than 2 or 3 shots from deep each game, I'd expect you to hit at least a third of them. If you can't, cut down the attempts as they're no better than turnovers - and missed 3s are great at sparking a fastbreak the other way.

    4. He's past his prime.
    This shouldn't even be up for debate. He's only 29, but he's a very old 29, thanks to jumping over from HS. McGrady is now undeniably 5 years removed from his peak as an NBA player. By almost (assists a notable exception) every statistical and subjective measure, he does not produce what he used. Both Yao and Artest, by contrast, appear to be firmly within their primes.

    5. He's going to be dealing with nagging injuries all year.
    This may be more up for debate, but he's the only guy of the 3 who has openly declared that he is not going to be 100% going into the season (knee, shoulder) and even worse has already said he'll need surgery. He also has a chronic back condition, which is never going to go away.
    It's only fair to mention that all 3 of our stars have a terrible history, recent or otherwise, of staying on the court. But of the three, McGrady seems to have the lowest chance of playing 90% or more of the regular season (at least at full strength).

    Again - this is NOT a thread meant to ridicule McGrady. He can and has been a huge part of our success and we would not be better off without him.

    What I am getting at is that we may have our best team success with him being employed as a "bonus" third option. Put the ball more often into the hands of the 2 stars that are more dependable game in and game out, the ones who score more efficiently, the ones who more regularly break down a defense close to the basket, the ones that best run the Adelman attack.

    Evan


    * - I hate anecdotal-only "evidence" to back up a point, but I'm not sure how to get around it here. This naturally is open to debate since everyone sees things from their own unique perspective.
     
  2. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    do you really think if yao or artest was in tmac's position last yr, we would have taken the jazz to 6 games? WITHOUT alston for 2.5 of those games?

    that should give you an answer. brent barry just came out saying in the chronicle a few games ago saying if we need a basket, the ball goes to tmac, regardless of what position he plays.

    i do agree with you tmac's role should be lessened -> which will increase his efficiency. we have too much talent to rely on tmac a lot like we have in the past. tmac should no longer be the sole reason we win or lose as it has for the past few yrs.
     
  3. SwoLy-D

    SwoLy-D Member

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    I also liked it when Sleepy Floyd came off the bench. :eek:

    No, but seriously, dude. How can you say he's not the #1 option? What's the use of bringing this up? :confused:
     
  4. TheGreat

    TheGreat Member

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    I agree with you on some of the things, but I still think Yao and T-Mac should receive the ball more then anyone. I really think when Shane Battier comes back, that Ron Artest should be our 6th man (Ala Manu Ginobili) and give us a very good spark off the bench...
     
  5. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    Yao's been the leading scorer on the team for the last two seasons. Regardless of what people on this board think the argument's already over.
     
  6. Tom Bombadillo

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    I agree with pretty much everything you said..............
     
  7. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    say that to wekko, dude thinks we're still not building around yao.
     
  8. Ikorose

    Ikorose Member

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    IMO Yao is #1, but in any case, T-Mac is the man of the team still. Artest is best suited for 3rd option. Remember the last time he was a 3rd option, the Pacers had the league's best record and went to the East Finals in 04, and Yao and T-Mac are both better than JO and Miller.

    Also, T-Mac commands the most doubles/triples in the league than anyone not named Lebron. We see it when the doubles start from half court and beyond. It won't be the case this year. He's by far the best playmaker on the team for himself and others.
     
  9. ooliverb1

    ooliverb1 Member

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    Not trying to bash Tmac... but is it just my TV or he really is seriously overweight?
     
  10. EssTooKayTD

    EssTooKayTD Member

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    I didn't vote b/c I think the first option is either Yao or McGrady. I can't pick one over the other to designate as *the* primary option on offense. I would think, you take what the D gives you.

    Start the game off going to Yao. depending on how they play him, how he's shooting, etc. you either keep feeding him or start having McGrady create offense via PnR, iso, coming off screens. Artest would be the 3rd option when the other two just can't seem to get it going (which is rare). He becomes a higher option of course when we start going into the rotation.
     
  11. csux

    csux Rookie

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    I don't think anybody who is overweight can play NBA game. I am sorry I take that back, everybody except Eddy Curry.
     
  12. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    I disagree with this ranking system and your thinking in general. The Adelman offense says take what the defense gives you...who has the mismatch?, who is healthy? You speak as if they just go 1-2-3, now its Battiers turn, etc.

    I think you will see McGradys %s go through the roof this season. Just look at the one preseason game he played, he was slow and hobbled and still shot 50%.

    At the end of the game in a clutch situation, I am still most comfortable with the ball in McGradys hands. Either he will find an open shooter or he will take it. McGrady is still what makes this team special, not as much as before, but he is still the best player.
     
  13. Precision340

    Precision340 Member

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    this could change from night to night depending on the matchups.. as long as the first option has a good, close, high percentage shot I don't really care who it is... just get tha ball in the hoop and defend!!
     
  14. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

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    This reminds me of that Some lakers think Kobe should be their 3rd option. :D
     
  15. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

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    Fixed.

     
  16. Shay

    Shay Member

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    We don't need to say out is the 1st or 2nd or 3rd option.

    We need to stress pushing the ball inside to Yao a lot and playing good defense , thats how you win games.

    When T-Mac has a favourab;le matchup we will go to him more , the same with Artest and Yao.

    Anyways in the last minutes of the game , 90% of the time it will be a T-Mac pick n roll because thats our best option.

    We just need to win , doesn't matter who scores more and we don't need to put labels on the big 3.

    WE MUST however stress in everygame to push the ball to Yao down low.
     
  17. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    I chose Tmac, Yao, Artest but it would very much depend on the matchups that evening. I've seen Yao dominate to the point where it seems like he makes 100% of his shots. I've also seen him shut down by quick 6'9" dudes so you can't say he is the first option the majority of the time IMO. Artest is good scorer but he simply is not as talented as McGrady is and they play basically the same position. I would say Artest is the 3rd option most of the time.

    Nearly every night Tmac has a mismatch in his favor. Now whether he chooses to exploit it is a different matter but I'll take him as the first option on most nights.
     
  18. London'sBurning

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    I think whoever is feeling it on that particular night should be the first option. I think whoever poses the biggest mismatch should be the first option.
     
  19. James Gabriel

    James Gabriel Member

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    Considering Yao's shooting percentage, I guess they should let him shoot the ball as much as McGrady. :D
     
  20. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    I'm not asking which of the three you'd rather have if you could only play with one for the season (though Yao has shown that he can lead the team just as well as McGrady each time he's played long stretches w/o him).

    I'm also not asking which should take the end-of-game shots. Kobe was always the #2 option behind Shaq, but was the guy taking the final shots.

    I think, over the course of the regular season at least, it would benefit both the team and McGrady if the burden of being the offensive centerpoint was lessened on him. I'm NOT suggesting we'd be better off with him out of teh way. I'm NOT suggesting he come off the bench. I'm NOT suggesting that he feed off of scraps. I'm NOT suggesting we stop calling plays for him. I'm NOT suggesting that he be a 10 ppg role player. I'm mostly suggesting that we not depend on him to create as our main option - mainly based on the way he has resisted going into the paint (last spring, especially). Let's make the game easier on him.

    Evan
     

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