OK we blaming the players. . . But where do you rate JVG this year? I think he has been mediocre at best. His rotations is too short and suspect. He says one thing but seems to do others He says he like hustle energy yadda yadda yadda but padget doesn't get much PT He calls time outs at inopportune times and never has any at the end of the game [CONTROL FREAK!! ] He has the motivational skills of a depressed ox [wants to be a drill sargent but just a depressing guy with a napoleon complex] I am sick of him looking sour ALL THE FRICKING TIME As I state somewhere else other coachs whip the players into a frenzy our coach seem to brow beat our players into a depressing [i.e. 3rd quarters sucks *Ss] I was not a big JVG fan I like something he has done. . . but overall I'm less than impressed. Rocket River
He is a great coach and will get the Rockets going in the right direction. It won't be with the current team(thank god), but I beleive he will get some players here this summer who will want to win for a change.
Before the season started, I felt 46-48 wins and a 6-8th playoff seed was expected. The win total will fall below where I felt we should be, but making the playoffs was the most important goal IMO, especially given the vastly improved Western Conference. So overall, I'd say "more bad than good". Even if the collapse continues and we end up in the lottery, I wouldn't put this all on JVG's shoulders. Like Rudy, I feel like JVG is a very good coach. Like JVG, I feel like the team, with Rudy, would be in about the same position they are in now (fighting for a 7th spot), although how they got here might have been on a different path. As GATER has said, this summer should see a flurry of trades and aquisitions. I'd like to see what type of changes JVG makes, and if he can get the players he wants. If so, I believe we will be much better next season.
I think we'd be further with Rudy Rudy motivates his players. . they wanna play hard for him Gollum doesn't . . . his players playing NOT to make mistakes . .. they are more like I HOPE WE DON'T LOSE than I HOPE WE WIN Rocket River
For defense, great coach. For offense, awful coach. For preparation, great coach. For motivation, awful coach. For instruction, great coach. For player control, awful coach. For vision, great coach. For using player resources, awful coach. For player evaluation, mediocre coach.
I've been a supporter for JVG since day one. I actually wanted him more than Brown (but not more than Rudy). The main goal this season is to make the play-offs. JVG was suppose to be the person that will make a difference and make it happen. We still have a chance, but even I'm starting to have doubts. Players themselves should get majority of the blame, I'll say 70% of the blame, but Coaches, GM, Owner should also shoulder some of the blame. IMHO, JVG has not accomplish what the team has set out to do. Again, I don't blame JVG for all this, but I do believe he contributes to our failure, 20%. CD gets 9% of the blame, he didn't get the right people to make it happen. Les gets 1% for believing in this group. When a project fails, everyone should get blamed, top to bottom. I don't feel I'm calling out JVG when I say that what he has attempted has failed. We are hanging by a thread in making the play-offs, how are we really that much better than last year? Different coach, different system, same result. We got rid of a Rocket icon for this? I don't think JVG should get fired, but I sure am not going to pad him on his back and say "good job". Grade: C Sure, blow up the team. I can no longer say "wait and see" with a straight face.
I really don't think the coach is the problem on ths team. He's saying the right things and he just isn't getting a response from his players. We have a group of players that do not believe in putting the benefit of the team over the benefit of the indivdual and it may take a total collapse like we're seeing to bring them around, IF they can be brought around.
players are SAYING the right things too Lotta folx SAY a lotta things WHAT IS JVG *DOING*? don't give that that crap about individualism because a lotta players have sacrificed their games Rocket River "It is a poor artist that blames his tools. . . "
One thing you have to remember about Van Gundy is that he always won with, IMO mediocre talent in NY. He got the Knicks to the finals as an 8 seed if memory serves me (the year they knocked off the Heat in round one....i think they at least made the conf finals that yr....and possibly lost to San An in the finals) I don't think Van Gundy is the problem. I think we need a true point guard...doesnt have to be an all star....but just a pass-first type of guy (gee I wonder if this has been said before)...
that team was a bunch of underacheivers until the playoffs. that was not MEDIOCRE talent and some coaches coach mediocre talent well . . but squander major talent Rocket RIver
This team is a mess left by Rudy, JVG is doing a good job keeping this mess in the Western conference at the 7th place. JVG does more good than bad to the team, without JVG the guards would keep doing their iso crap all game long and we would have been out of the playoff hunt by now. Without JVG and Ewing it's doubtful for Yao to be able to hold his own against Shaq in his second year. Without JVG it's hard to say we'd get Jim Jackson and Kelvin Cato would have stayed on the bench behind Yao 'cuz Rudy wouldn't start Cato at the four. Finally, thanks for JVG for exposing that Francis' confidence is so fragile that he can't handle tough love and a diminished role, saving us time to find that out.
A pretty accurate assessment IMO. I never deceived myself into thinking the Rockets had the talent to be a 50 win team in the loaded WC. Somewhere between Rudy T couldn't (players fault) or wouldn't (failure to realize ISO ball coudn't defeat zones and was too much a players' coach), the results would have been the same. I voted 7 (probably an 8 or 8.5) because JVG is nowhere near perfect but he also inherited a group of players most of which were built for a coaching philosophy 180 degrees from his. Any score for a Van Gundy report card is "Incompete" until he has a chance to bring players more responsive to his style. (Now watch someone embarass themselves with an ex-Knicks comment...Mark Jackson will be coaching St. John's next year and Oakley will be long forgotten...we're talking "style" as in Jim Jackson and Adrian Griffin or something larger now that he's had a season to evaluate).
I don't think a decision should be made on JVG until next season. Look at the Hubie Brown situation in Memphis. They sucked last year; now look at them this year. Now, CD is no Jerry West, but we still have to reserve judgment until next year. Change was what we wanted. Rudy held their hands, and wiped their butts for them. JVG is a disciplinarian, something that we thought this team needed. Well, apparently, it isn't working, the prima donnas on this team aren't responding. These aren't JVG type players. Sure it would be nice if JVG could change the current players into what is needed, or change his coaching method to fit the team, but we've invested a lot into him, so we've got to give him at least until the All-Star break next season.
We could'a had Larry Brown. We could'a had Rick Carlisle. Shoot, we could'a had Dunlasty and team of Rocket player development assistants. JVG has played his hand very poorly. CD has been even worse. They should have traded EG before he blew up in their faces. They should have traded Francis, Mobley, Taylor and Cato last year. They mishandled the Rice deal. There were chances to make trades at the break, and they blew it. They couldn't even pick the right NBDL guys to help push the squad. I'm sick of these incompetent bozos and their tired excuses. That's players AND management, thank you very little.
Not only the Knicks beat the Heat with Alonzo Mourning, but also they beat a LOADED Pacers team with Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin, Antonio Davis and Dale Davis etc... the Knicks also got two wins in the NBA finals against the Spurs who steamrolled every team in that playoffs.
OK, so as long as Van Gundy gets the Rockets into the playoffs, they should make some noise... Oh yeah, they're not making the playoffs, so it's a moot point...
We know this thread was started because you hate JVG. I can't believe u think it's the coach and not the players. Look at the last 5 years, 4 under Rudy T, how many times did they make it to the playoffs? JVG will bring in his type of players and i look forward to seeing a team that can actually win games when they count most.
I have predicted a 47 win season since day 1 until about last week. I can still be right if they win out the rest of the games. But I'll be happy if they can just win 2 more. If we finish with 44 win, I think we have regressed. This year we clearly have better players than last year. If we get the same result, we are actually doing worse. And this is not factoring in the Mr. Mean meltdown at the end of last season. In other words, if Rudy didn't have cancer at that time, we might end up winning more than this year. Look at our core rotation. We have the two Jacksons replacing Posey and Moochie, and Spoon replacing EG--three experienced veterans replacing three young guys. In fact, these three new guys is playing better than the ones they replace. Of the remaining 5 guys in the core rotation, Yao has clearly improved. So you have half of your core rotation playing better. Why do you not winning more? There are only two possibilities: Either the coach is doing a lousy job or the other half of the core rotation is awful. I am inclined to put the primary blame on the latter. JVG is not a great coach. But he is not bad. His track record shows that he could win. He is not better than Rudy, just different. I am convinced that Rudy could have taken this team to win at least the same amount of games, maybe more. If you look at the other half of the rotation, Mobley is not playing worse than last year. Taylor is still Taylor. The problem then is at the 1 and 4 spot. Cato is actually playing about the same as last year. But this year, he is playing out of position. He is better backing up Yao than be the starting PF. I think we should start Spoon and split the time with Mo. As for Francis. . . [sigh] What can we say? Is he a victim of JVG's system? Perhaps. But I am now persuaded more and more by those who say he doesn't have the necessary skills to be a good PG and probably never will. I think the rest of the league is realizing this too. If we don't trade him soon, his value will drop like a rock. Maybe JVG's biggest contribution is exposing Francis's problem. Now after we trade Francis in the offseason, JVG's job is done. Let's bring back Rudy to lead the new team to the promised land!
The Western conference has got considerably tougher this year. Last year a winning percentage of .512 gets a team at the 8th seed in the playoffs in the Eastern conference, this year, .513 gets the Bucks at the 4th seed right now. The Leastern teams are getting gang banged by the tough West.
Anyone can win with "their type of players". Hell, give me Shaq and Duncan, there's my type of player! If you can only coach one type of player, you're not that good. I guess Jim Jackson, Yao Ming, Kelvin Cato, and Piatkowski aren't "JVG type players". Gundy wouldn't have come to Houston if they didn't have his type of players. What is this "let's wait a year and give him a chance to bring in better players" garbage? Excuse me, he was brought in to win immediately. The team supposedly UNDERachieved. He was supposed to get more out of them. Why don't we go ahead and wait until Yao Ming is dominating the NBA, then evaluate him? I'm sure JVG will be looking good then ... I'm sure the best player in the league is his type of player!
