Clemens v. McNamee: With Physical Evidence, who do you believe

i dont even think there's an iota of doubt that clemens was using both steroids and hgh. what exactly does mcnamee have to gain by lying to the feds??? no one on this planet can explain that. nevermind the fact that several other players that he indicted - including andy pettitte - in the report have corroborated his testimony.

but this is exactly what a prime-time, expensive as all hell attorney will get you.... just look at OJ.

 

you're aware they pressured him about clemens, right? he didn't serve it up. he was being interrogated. have you read the transcript?

 

There needs to be another option that says you won't believe either one until someone actually admits they lied...that's the only way the truth will ever come out.

 

Show us the link to where this alleged pressure occured.

Whom is saying they pressured him to give up Clemens?

Is it Clemens lawyers saying that?

Did McNamee say that?

DD

 

It takes only 10 seconds of research to find something.

"Meanwhile, it was the federal pressure on McNamee that allowed Mitchell to include Clemens in the report."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3153843



"The suit claims to know that McNamee buckled to pressure from the feds. "According to McNamee," reads one portion of the suit, "he originally made his allegations to federal authorities after being threatened with criminal prosecution if he did not implicate Clemens." "After this exchange, and for the first time in his life, McNamee stated that he had injected Clemens with steroids in 1998, 2000 and 2001," said the suit, which was filed late last night. "Following his recantation, McNamee has relayed that he magically went from a 'target' in a federal criminal drug investigation to a mere 'witness,' so long as he continued to 'toe the line."

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/01/roger_clemens_suits_up_1.html

 

Yes, but it might take longer to find the RIGHT thing.

This is in reference to making McNamee repeat his assertions about Clemens to Mitchell. Not to make him talk about Clemens.

This is what the Clemens' camp claims. I think DaDa is asking for something from a more direct or unbiased source.

 

Uh, I think Major explained it above.

Is that quote from the lawsuit filed by Roger Clemens.....GOOD FRICKEN GRIEF....

Show me one shred of evidence ONE that says he was pressured into throwing Clemens in the ring....and it can NOT come from Roger Clemens and Rusty Hardin.......

You guys are falling for the ole rope a dope.....Sure, Iraq was involved in the Twin Towers attack.



DD

 

and who wouldn't defend a friend if they weren't going to be punished for not doing so???

 

Hold on there, bipolar. You asked,

"Show us the link to where this alleged pressure occured.

Whom is saying they pressured him to give up Clemens?

Is it Clemens lawyers saying that?

Did McNamee say that?"


And I provided the link for the allleged pressure shown in Clemens' lawsuit stated by the Clemens camp. And GOOD FRICKEN GRIEF, what does this have to with Iraq!

 

Sorry, you are correct. My apologies, those questions were meant to be rhetorical, I know that Clemens side is saying that, but that has no merit at all.

That is just them trying hard to make their client look good by discrediting the other guy.

And it has pretty much zero weight in the debate.


The Iraq comment is an attempt at showing how one side says something so much that others start to believe it.....like Bush saying that Iraq had something to do with the Twin towers attack when in reality they had NOTHING at all to do with it...

The same type of thing is going on here.....The alleged pressure has never been substantiated, but it has been picked up by the lazy media.

 

I've shown you this before. It didn't matter. I'm fairly certain I've posted the link to the entire transcript at least 2x before in conversations with you about this.

The Smoking Gun had the entire transcript up previously. I can't find it. But it's cited to and embedded in Clemens' petition against McNamee:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107081clemens10.html

Interrogators handed him a prepared statement regarding Clemens. They tell him they know stuff that he doesn't know. And that he's going to jail.....unless..........


i'm certain your next comment will be to insinuate that clemens' attorneys fabricated all this and put in a pleading that was filed with the court. let me suggest that sort of thing costs attorneys their law license.

 

so you haven't read the transcript.

 

I completely agree. Good comparison to OJ.

Wow, not many people in here believe Clemens!

 

I will stay on Rocket's side until he proves me wrong. I think they have to have a strong case to continue but I will ride this out. I will say this , they could not have scripted a better reality show if they tried. Next week will be great

 

Not that it means much...but Radomski believes McNamee...

SAN FRANCISCO -- Kirk Radomski, the former New York Mets clubhouse attendant, doesn't have a smoking needle. He never witnessed Roger Clemens being injected with steroids. Nor did he ask Brian McNamee, Clemens' former personal trainer, what he did with the performance-enhancing drugs Radomski supplied him.

But with the seven-time Cy Young Award winner and McNamee primed for a showdown on Capitol Hill on Wednesday and engaged in a vicious he-said, he-said battle over McNamee's allegations that Clemens used the drugs, Radomski strongly believes that McNamee is telling the truth.

"I'm defending Brian, that is right," Radomski told ESPN.com. "I believe him over Clemens and his lawyers. I think he is very believable. He was a cop. He knows the consequences of lying. He has more to lose than to gain by lying."

Federal investigators learned through Radomski, who was sentenced to probation Friday for his role in distributing steroids to major league players, that McNamee was one of his steroids customers and a possible subdistributor. McNamee later told investigators he injected Clemens at least 16 times with steroids and human growth hormone. Clemens and his legal team have aggressively denied the allegations.

He said he met McNamee, who like himself lived in the New York area, through a ballplayer. They occasionally met for lunch or pumped iron together. He also trained some of McNamee's clients, mostly business types looking to stay fit.

Radomski worked for the Mets from 1985 to 1995, then became a personal trainer. He claims he didn't begin finding steroids for players until after he left the club.

He said he has not spoken to McNamee since his own legal troubles began.

Radomski said he knew the performance-enhancing drugs sold to McNamee were intended for his baseball-playing clients, but he didn't inquire about their identities.

"I knew who his guys were, but I never asked questions," Radomski said. "I didn't want to know. Can I assume? I can assume anything, but that is not my deal. He could have took the stuff and threw it out the window -- what do I know? But if Brian is saying this stuff [about injecting Clemens and pitcher Andy Pettitte], then I have to take Brian for his word."

Pettitte, a longtime friend and teammate of Clemens, has confirmed McNamee's account of receiving HGH injections. The pitchers share the same agent, but Pettitte has been positioned to potentially damage Clemens' cause in a deposition given to congressional lawyers last week and when he's put under oath before Congress on Wednesday.

"This [Pettitte] is supposed to be a God-fearing man," Radomski said. "I want to see what he says."

But in his own discussions with McNamee about doping regimens, Radomski doesn't recall McNamee speaking of Clemens or other specific players.

"Basically, he'd ask me how pitchers and position players should use different things," Radomski said. "Or himself, when he had surgery and he wanted to heal. Because he has to train people, he has to be out there at all times."

McNamee put himself in Clemens' crosshairs when he signed a proffer agreement with federal prosecutors, stipulating that he could not be charged with steroid distribution as long as everything he told the prosecutors was truthful. He also was asked to cooperate with the baseball-commissioned steroids investigation led by former Sen. George Mitchell, which made public McNamee's claim that he injected Clemens with steroids and growth hormone in 1998, 2000 and 2001.

"Clemens' people want to portray [McNamee] as some lunatic," said Radomski, who described McNamee as a friend. "He is not. That is the wrong move. I cannot see guys like the U.S. attorneys office out here not believing him and putting so much [trust in him]. If they weren't sure, they wouldn't do what they have done. They are very thorough, very credible people."

Radomski said he has never been contacted by Clemens' attorney, Rusty Hardin, who has recently borrowed a page from the book of the Barry Bonds legal team in suggesting that the government's lead investigator, IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky, has a vendetta against his client. And he didn't expect a call, he said, considering his cooperation with the government and the invitation to appear Wednesday before the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

"I don't know what they are thinking," Radomski said of Clemens' legal team. "I am only out there looking out for Brian. That is my only concern. I trust Brian and I believe Brian is telling the truth. Unless there is evidence to show he is not, I got to go with my friend. I have no doubt. If he lies, he is in a lot more trouble than just perjury. He opened himself up to so many other counts it is not funny. So why would he do what he is doing?"

The Clemens camp has asked the same question of McNamee.

But clearly, the loser in this very personal, much-anticipated truth test could pay a painful price. McNamee is on the hook for statements he provided federal investigators, as well as past transgressions that were erased because he agreed to cooperate. Clemens' reputation and possibly his place in the Hall of Fame are in jeopardy, and he could face perjury charges if he's found to have lied before Congress.

"That is perjury," Radomski said. "Brian is also looking at other charges they could bring. Perjury is perjury. You get a couple counts of perjury and knock it down, OK. What is [McNamee] facing? It's distribution, possession, lying to the government. Brian is looking at a lot more time than anyone else. Weigh what he is looking at and what Clemens is. That is the way I look at it."

Radomski also said he's been influenced by the way in which some of the pro athletes he knows disavowed their relationships with him when his troubles began. Only David Segui called him, he said. Others kept their distance. Some, he said, such as Lenny Dykstra and Fernando Vina, initially either denied knowing him or denied that they'd written checks to him for drugs.

He still doesn't know who turned him in to federal agents, but he believes it was players.

Radomski said he wonders about the silence displayed by personal trainer Greg Anderson when he has been questioned about Bonds, and its relationship to the ongoing Clemens-McNamee dispute.

"I think it is money," Radomski said, speculating on why Anderson hasn't spoken about Bonds. "And you know what? If that is the case, that is fine with me. He made that decision. And Bonds did the right thing there. Then Bonds ain't that bad of a guy. And he's a smart guy, at least. And he looked out for his guy.

"Why didn't Roger do that to Brian, then? You want to protect people. You want to be their friend, but friendship also has to go both ways. I guess Bonds understood that."

Mike Fish is an investigative reporter for ESPN.com. He can be reached at michaeljfish@gmail.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3238667

 

I am just completely confused and not sure what to think anymore.

1. Why would Mcnamee save needles and whatnot for 7 years.
2. Why did he mention it NOW instead of earlier?
3. Why in the world did he say that he injected Roger Clemens WIFE?
4. Why would she even need to be injected with HGH for a photo shoot?


Everything just sounds fishy. I feel like I can't trust either camps.

I figure if Mcnamee knew for sure that Clemens couldn't prove Mcnamee WRONG, spilling out his name wouldn't get him in trouble. I figured the feds would just say there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute him but still believed him. But in the end...what do I know?

 

And now...Clemens has some evidence of his own...

WASHINGTON -- A lawyer for Roger Clemens said Saturday the pitcher can prove he didn't attend a June 1998 party at Jose Canseco's home described by Brian McNamee in the Mitchell report.

According to McNamee, Clemens first raised the subject of steroids not long after McNamee saw Canseco and Clemens meeting during the party.

Clemens' side has turned over evidence to congressional investigators, including an affidavit from Canseco, to support that the pitcher wasn't present at Canseco's home that day, the attorney, Rusty Hardin, said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

Hardin said video footage from telecasts of baseball games around the time of the party also were given to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. During the telecasts, Hardin said, TV announcers can be heard discussing Canseco's party and noting that Clemens wasn't there.

A person familiar with the committee's investigation confirmed to the AP the affidavit and video were turned over and are in Clemens' favor. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the investigation.

The House panel is examining former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell's report on drug use in baseball, and a public hearing Wednesday is expected to focus on Clemens' denials of what his former personal trainer, McNamee, alleged. McNamee told Mitchell he injected Clemens at least 16 times with steroids and human growth hormone in 1998, 2000 and 2001.

One of the things the committee is going to hear on Wednesday is about this party that is supposed to have started this whole thing. Roger wasn't even at this party.

"One of the things the committee is going to hear on Wednesday is about this party that is supposed to have started this whole thing," Hardin said. "Roger wasn't even at this party."

Asked about what Hardin said, one of McNamee's attorneys, Richard Emery, replied: "It may be that he wasn't there for the whole time, but he was there at some point. ... His kids were there, his wife was there, and he was there."

The first mention of Clemens' name in the Mitchell report is on page 167. On the very next page comes McNamee's account of "a lunch party that Canseco hosted at his home in Miami."

"McNamee stated that, during this luncheon, he observed Clemens, Canseco, and another person he did not know meeting inside Canseco's house, although McNamee did not personally attend that meeting," the Mitchell report says.

The report goes on to say that Canseco told Mitchell's staff "he had numerous conversations with Clemens about the benefits of Deca-Durabolin and Winstrol and how to 'cycle' and 'stack' steroids."

The report continues: "Toward the end of the road trip which included the Marlins series, or shortly after the Blue Jays returned home to Toronto, Clemens approached McNamee and, for the first time, brought up the subject of using steroids. Clemens said that he was not able to inject himself, and he asked for McNamee's help."

Hardin said that last week Clemens' camp sent a lawyer to interview Canseco, whose book about steroids in baseball, "Juiced," prompted Congress to hold hearings in March 2005. According to Hardin, Canseco said Clemens was not at the party.

Canseco did not immediately respond to a telephone message Saturday night.

His lawyer, Robert Saunooke, said he was unaware of an affidavit but added that he could confirm Canseco has spoken to lawyers for Clemens recently.

As described by Hardin, the video footage turned over to the committee includes one announcer making reference to Canseco's party and saying Clemens didn't show up. Another announcer, Hardin said, then adds that he saw Clemens playing golf that day.

Hardin said Clemens has a receipt for greens fees from that day.

Hardin hopes the committee will show the video during Wednesday's hearing, he said, "and let the public see how dramatic and clear it is that Roger obviously was not at the very party that McNamee is testifying started this whole thing. It's the foundation of it."

Clemens raised the discrepancy about the party during at least some of his various face-to-face meetings with representatives Thursday and Friday.

"He told me he was never there," said Rep. Paul Kanjorski, a Pennsylvania Democrat. "They have physical, hard evidence that he was never there."

Kanjorski was one of seven lawmakers Clemens with Friday, raising the two-day total to 19 -- nearly half of the 41 on the committee.

"Roger made it clear with all the congressmen he was talking to: He wasn't challenging the Mitchell report," Hardin said. "He was simply challenging the part of it that dealt with him that's based on what McNamee says."

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3238965

So McNamee saved various drug paraphernalia that's seven to eight years old...while Clemens just happens to have a receipt prove he wasn't at some party a decade ago. Talk about pack rats...jeez!

 

I voted that if the needles have Roger's blood on them, then McNamee is telling the truth.

The reason is because I dont buy the BS that Roger got injected with Lidocaine (a dental freakin anesthetic that is useless in the ass) and Vitamin B12 (a substance that comes from meat and dairy products...something that an athlete's diet would cover a hundred times over). Specially with B12, high levels of it in our body cause side effects such as numbness, panic attacks, heart palpitations, etc... In other words, there is NO reason why Clemens should be taking extra vitamin B12, and if he really needed it, a pill would be the only other logical way of getting it in your system. Absolutely no need to inject it.

 

I vote McNamee is telling the truth.