What's done is done. At this point, I'm trying to get over it. I really want to trust the management that they know what they are doing. You know, I really do. So here's the question: How unique is Shane Battier, the "glue guy"? Is he the kind of player that's hard to find in a trade or FA that it has to cost us a lottery pick and MLE signing last season (basically depth at this point)? If he isn't that unique, and the management knows all along that they need a "Shane Battier" along side with Tmac and Yao to "take on the west", then why all the fuss about Swift last season? Right now, our PF situation is back to last off-season. Shouldn't they place priority on finding that "glue guy" via FA and trade last time around? Why circling the wagon to find that peice? Oh, don't tell me they had their hopes on aging Bobby Sura. That's not enough. I've been quite critical towards the Rockets management in the past. I've called them mediocre to the chagrin of some of the posters. To me, a lot of their moves are reactionary - do something to make up for last mistake, rather than visionary. But for the sake of Tmac and Yao, for the team we all love, I want you to prove me wrong. I want you to convince me they know what they are doing all along. So, fire away.
I feel Battier really is that glue guy, I truly believe he made that Memphis team a playoff team (even though they sucked in the playoffs), now they probably won't make it for a while. This guy will really help our team, I know it.
This was posted over at the APBRmetrics board by Bob Chaikin (APBRmetrics): This makes me think Morey was a big factor in getting this trade done. He probably convinced the Rockets management that Battier was a special player (because, when you really delve into the data in a comprehensive manner, not just superficially looking at his box score stats), that's what it looks like. He continues: Maybe this was the kind of analysis that convinced the Rockets? I understand the concerns from a long-term planning perspective. I guess the Rockets felt that after a disasterous season last year, they didn't want to take any chances. They wanted to ensure we would be improved next year -- and Battier was the best bet. BTW, I disagree that we're back to square one with the PF scenario. People here know how much I like Chuck Hayes. I think he's a real gem, and he should get significant minutes. I would have preferred moving Howard, yes, but at least this move clears the way for Hayes to get more time. He'll be better than Swift was last year (assuming he gets the primary backup role). And, who knows, Novak could end up being a steal as well. He was an unbelievable shooter in college. It depends on how much of a defensive liability he turns out to be. I'd be surprised if he's quick enough to defend SF, and he looks to be a weak interior defender and rebounder. Juwan will likely continue his slide. If it turns out that the Rockets could have traded Howard instead of Swift to Memphis and decided not to, THAT is boneheaded.
Battier and Yao will be the nucleus of the team regardless of TMAC's health. If TMAC's back is good, we will compete in the playoffs, if his back gives out we will have another shot in the much deeper draft next season. Furthermore, if he retires (he has already said he will never have back surgery) then we can also pursue a high dollar free agent next season. The deal is a calculated gamble to try to win this season. Let's see what other moves they make this offseason and then make a judgement. Regardless, I am willing to give Morey a clean slate after CD is gone. I really would have preferred he step down prior to the draft, but he wanted to take one last shot at putting together a contender. But I don't see the franchise being in longterm trouble even if he dropped the ball on this deal. Battier is a positive to have on your roster. With him and Yao we can reload for next season if need be.
I think Battier is a good glue guy, but I think the reason tons of us are pissed is because we don't think we're that glue guy away. I feel we need more talent before we can worry about getting that "glue" guy.
I really think T-MAC is going to prove all the doubters wrong next year and will be better than ever especially with Battier taking defensive pressure off of him he will be able to more of what he does best which is to score.
"Circling the Wagon" That's a great metaphor, we're going in circles in a 6th seed - mid lotto treadmill.
At this point, this revelation only makes me more mad. I do stats for a living, and I don't trust that crap. Maybe if they get out of first round because of Shane, I would believe more, but from the Memphis' playoff performence, I don't have any confidence right now. I have feared a Stat-boy GM would lead to something like this. Chuck Hayes has nothing to do with our being a contending team. As much as I like Chuck, I don't think he's a reliable PF option in the west given heavy minutes. He's nice to have, yes. There's always some Chuck Hayes in the corner, a "Chuck Hayes" comes along quite often. BTW, thanks for the intelligent discussion.
First let me say I didn't like the trade when it was announced, sounded ludicrous to me. After sitting back awhile, I'm starting to like it. Reason 1 is that the Rox management wasn't the first to show no faith in this years draft. The Celtics also traded the #7 pick for Telfair. That should tell us something. They also had no faith in anyone in this draft. Reason #2 is Battier really is a much better fit than either Swift or Gay. Both of these guys are better fits for teams with an UP tempo offense that we are not going to be with Yao. We will run when able but our strenght will be the 1/2 court game. Battier fits that mold much better and he's a high IQ player that Swift will never be. I also believe Battier is a forward, not a guard and that TMac is going to have to move to the 2 guard or when Battier plays PF he'll move back to the 3. For all those who think TMac will have problems with the better SG's in the league, they'll have a bigger problem trying to match up with him. What will really make this a good deal is what the Rox management does afterward. 1 possibility that few will like is some deal with Portland. We should figure who we can live with from them and deal accordingly. That is definetly a snake pit, but like Wallace was a gem for Detroit, we need to find out who else will help with a much better enviroment here that couldn't over there. James would definetly help if he truly wants to play here and it wouldn't hurt to find someone in the 6'5-6'9 range that has some athletic ability ala Stephenson, Jeffries that we might be able to pluck with the TE. Hopefully this isn't the end but just the beginning.
Man I hope you are right. With Battier taking much of the burden on defense, TMAC and YAO can DOMINATE on the offense. The reason it seems like we have a huge talent deficit compared to "contending" teams is due to our injuries last season...plus last year was a perfect storm of injuries and aging role players no longer being effective. If TMAC can go, and we can acquire a few more key role players, and head/hayes/novak can develop we can go toe-to-toe with anyone in the NBA. I would like to see Hayes get 15-25 minutes per game...that man could possible be a top 10 rebounder given enough minutes. I am getting more optimistic by the day for next season.
maybe this was mentioned in one of the other 800 posts about the pick, and the subsequent trade - did cd force memphis to take swift back in the trade? was it going to be gay for battier straight up, but then cd says hey we dont want swift so if you want gay you gotta take stro also? was this the case? i know he had to be included for contract reasons also, but i certainly hope that this is how it worked, and cd didnt get worked over by the logo.
Have a question, can battier create his own shot or will he have to wait for yao or tracy to pass just like ev1 else on the team???
Since you don't trust stats, maybe this doesn't mean much to you. But if you really look at his numbers (on a per minutes basis), and also the +/- data for him, he's not a player who "comes along quite often". If you look at all this data, what he did as a rookie who joined the team in the middle of the season just impresses the hell out of me. I'm not saying he's a sure thing to be a star or anything like that -- most of his minutes probably came against the opposing team's backups. But I think, at east, he'll be a very productive backup. Much more so than Swift.
I think he can in a limited way...he's a great spot up shooter and also a good mid-range shooter, and if overplayed can drive and finish or dish off. He is an ideal "3rd option" for a 1/2 court offense, hopefully the 1/2 court offense built around YAO will magnify his strengths and diminish his weaknesses. Of course, adding James would make us even better in the 1/2 court. I feel this is only a good trade because of Yao, we don't want to run too much cause that would effectively prevent Yao from being fully effective. Yao is going to bust out huge this year...look at what he did after his toe surgery
I have no problems with Shane Battier- Classy guy and a High IQ player. But why Did we not get more- assuming we would have traded anyway? And If Swift was basically taken back- by the same team - that means he had some value- could we not have picked up someone like Sergio Rodriguez or a Marcus Williams for the back Up spot? Well we have the MLE and the larger moochi TE- to get 2 good players. And for having suffered through all this as a fan - I expect Howard to be traded for Miles- yes the same Miles that Portland offered with the 30th and 31st pick! ( IF they gave me a back up PG and Miles why not?)
Durv I thought the same thing about Brian Cardinal who scored off the charts with per minute/roland ratings/adjusted +/- and the like with Golden state but has been a disaster in Memphis. I think with the low-minute garbage timers there's a high risk of out-lier-dom.
