Chron: Supreme Court begins weighing Ten Commandments displays

Good. I think they should address it, so the entire issue can finally be put to rest.

 

They'll be coming out of the woodwork on this one, nothing like religion and the ten commandments to get both bases all riled up and foamin' at the mouth

 

Those stone tablets can be pretty heavy.

 

I give you these fifteen, <crash>, ten commandments!

 

School Prayer.

 

If I remember correctly, the Supreme court already heard a case in regards to school prayer earlier. I don't think they've handed down a ruling yet.

Since I'm an atheist, I can't exactly comment on this case without extreme bias. But I think this is a case where the usage of the Bill of Rights to protect the minority is quite appropriate.

 

To "protect" the minority from the evils of prayer!!!!!!

 

I think this has more to do with endorsement of a particular religion


"I don't think government should be in the business of morality," said David Condo, 40, of Beltsville, Md., as protesters wrapped in parkas, scarves and ear muffs marched nearby. "I'd rather brave the elements on a cold morning than start on a slippery slope to theocracy."

well said, but I'm not sure a blanket ruling from the Supreme Court is the answer
I don't think we'll see a blanket ruling from them either

 

Knight take queen..bishop take queen...EVERYONE TAKE QUEEN!

 

What if it's an Islamic display? Or Buddhist? Or, for that matter, what if it's a atheist display telling people how religion is a bunch of BS? Would you still feel there's no "evil" in such things?

 

pfft, those other religions are obviously wrong, cuz when you go to court, you swear on a bible

 

i think the Ten Commandments monuments are silly. i think Christians have made idols out of these symbols far too often. i'm shocked to hear Christians say, "they've taken God out of our schools/government/law/etc." I'm shocked because the God of the Bible isn't so easily removed, from my reading.

having said all that....i don't understand the statement, above. MOST of our laws find a base in some sense of shared culture morality. from white collar crime to government benefits to the poor to a progressive tax code...morality...governing right/wrong in our culture...is exactly what the government does. and every government on the face of the planet has done it since the beginning of time. call it right/wrong...call it justice/injustice...call it whatever. are you seriously telling me you read the Bill of Rights, for example, and find no base in some sense of shared morality???

 

I think there is a shared morality, but it lies in human nature and not government/religion

just an example I don't think we need this debate here lol, I don't think the Gov should tell you who you can marry. IT exists to set the terms of marriage, that when you are married you share property/debt etc equally

but specify that marriage is between a man and a woman should be left up to the individual and not the government

and next up is teaching intelligent design in schools... which is pretty much how it went in my High School (public!)... Evolution was glossed over rather quickly and it was emphatically described as a THEORY... when I objected I was RIDDICULED for the rest of my HS days as the guy who thinks we came from monkeys... ugh
(um no we didn't come from monkeys, if we did we wouldn't have monkeys, but we came from a common ancestor... this wasn't even brought up in my HS biology class!)
we had a moment of silence each morning, and at that time the class said the lords prayer out loud... I know first hand how prayer in school alienates minorities such as myself

It's a slippery slope both ways, I understand that
you can make the argument that some individuals think murder is ok and therefore shouldn't be made illegal

I'm just of the opinion, when it doesn't hurt any one else, protect the individual as, imo, the founders of this country intended

 

judging by state laws around that time, most of which were drafted by those same "founders," i entirely disagree. they didn't think the FEDERAL govt. should get involved. but state laws were a b****...particularly before the 14th Amendment.

who thinks murder shouldn't be illegal? what??? like 1/2 percent of the population? does the majority have to bend for that, really? i can find someone who thinks they're napoleon.

i wasn't even getting into concepts of school prayer...or marriage...i just hear it said all the time that the law and morality have nothing to do with one another. had a constitutional law professor who used to try to sell that crap to me. i'm not buying. every society bases laws on some sense of right/wrong...just/unjust. whether or not you believe it comes from God...or nature...or just mores handed down for generations, it exists nonetheless.

 

quote more

the distinction I'm trying to make, poorly, is that while morality in government exists, one religions views on morality aren't meant to be the law of the land
the government should keep it's restrictions on morality to a minimum so as to protect every individuals choice in religion and lifestyle. The limits of those rights should end, imo, when they infringe upon others and not when they offend a particular religious view.

I've always thought the reason people began to come to this continent to begin with was to escape religious persecution and is why it's the FIRST amendment, like being first was supposed to make it important. That the reason the Amendment doesn't impose such rules over the states was that the balance of power between state and federal gov. was a huge point of contention during the creation of this country; which is why we have a bill of rights ratified AFTER the signing of the constitution that included the 10th amendment

 

lp -- i don't want religion and govt intertwined either. the church has enough problems of its own to overcome without that association.

i'm not approaching his quote merely from a religious context, though. it struck a particular nerve because of hearing that over and over again from a professor in law school...confronting on it...and getting non-sensical answers.

 

err that last part of my post was confusing, I meant to say that the constitution was signed only with an agreement that the bill of rights would be soon thereafter ratified, which included the 10th amendment

not that I didn't think you'd get what I was trying to say, and you being a lawyer and all, have probably heard all those pesky amendments anywho

I can see it striking a cord that morality and government don't mix and I was wrong, it wasn't well said
Government shouldn't be in the business of using religion to interpret/decide morality

and I'm glad to see we agree on that, Max
I can see why you got non-sensical answers, though... how do you know what is moral

I imagine that few of us have completely mastered right and wrong inside our own heads let alone how it should be imposed on everyone

 

wait...this is my point. it may not be perfect...but our laws are LARGELY based on society's determinations about what is right/acceptable/just and what is wrong/unacceptable/unjust. it just is. when congressmen/women get up to speak in favor of some new action they typically talk about how reprehensible the conduct is they're seeking to criminalize...or they stand up and make a passionate speech about how taking some action is just the "right thing to do." read the opinion in Brown v. Bd of Education and see if you don't get the idea that a sense of morality is important to the court in reaching their decision. we don't live in a neutral world...in some theoretical bubble where we all have no sense of right/wrong. that "collective sense" is ultimately reflected in our laws where we balance our values.

if you're arguing something different than what i'm saying above, then we're just not communicating well. or we're talking about 2 different topics.

 

we agree Max, I was just saying how difficult it is to decide the moral values of a society when almost every individual contradicts themselves on their own morals in some way
how morals are implimented, societys right vs the rights of the individual
black and white answers for a world in color (and infared, ultraviolet, radio...)

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