OWNED again! Texas' Limas Sweed pulls in a 31-yard touchdown pass in the second quarter as Colorado Gerett Burl defends. (AP Photo/Dave Einsel)
Of course you do. You think anything good he does is overrated. It's why we don't really listen to you.
And right behind is ic2k or bigtexx. Or kas13 saying "ok, ok. He looked ok in the rose, but I still ain't sold."
Not that I'm arguing for VY or against RB, but the "his performance against OSU was beyond overrated" statement is indefensibly inaccurate.
He had 2 costly interceptions and a Fumble. His defense saved him on the interceptions. Yes he did make a nice throw at the end of the game. Very similar to the Roethlisberger super bowl performance.
How many yards did he pass for? How many TD passes? Having a big game despite one's mistakes, and still having the presence of mind and confidence to make big play at the end of a game in which one has made mistakes is some serious gamesmanship. That was one hell of a performance. On another note, I wonder how many INTs per game and YPG other QBs managed against that defense. Those guys were pretty good; I had picked them to win.
I liken this choice to the one Houston fans had to make a couple decades ago, when we drafted Dream. In 1983, we drafted Ralph Sampson and already had him at center. The choice was on either the hometown hero, 'Akeem', or the NC progidy Michael Jordan. Popular sentiment stood and we took Olajuwon, eventually winning two championships. Would it have been better to pick MJ instead? This year, the hometown hero is Vince (~Olajuwon, in my analogy) and the out-of-state star with unworldly athletic ability is Reggie (~MJ). But unlike in the Rockets analogy, you can't play Carr and Vince together. So you trade away Carr for a middling 2nd rounder or so (maybe even less, considering the abuse Carr has taken over the years), draft VY, and get a decent but unspectacular player for the Carr pick. It just doesn't make sense to me. If we could somehow turn Carr into D'Brick, I'd be for it. But it ain't gonna happen. The Jets or Raiders won't trade for Carr when they can take Jay Cutler instead. Lest you think that we could get more for Carr, just take a look at the (lack of) interest in Philip Rivers lately.
it was easy; just as easy: bringing up VY's heisman-choking performance against the aggies. we could probably fill our own message board going back and forth throwing games at one another, but that wasn't my point. i was ripping young backers who too often fall over themselves ripping apart bush's accomplishments because it came against their idea of inferior opponents, with their laser usually pointed at the PAC-10, completely oblivious to the fact that VY's best performance this year came against... a PAC-10 team. it's lazy. worse, it's untrue. USC went up against some top-ranked teams, and some additionally top-ranked defenses. his far-and-away two best games came against (at the time) top 20 teams (notre dame and fresno state). he has no one to apologize to, nor does young. they both had incredible seasons; and guess what? it's OK to admit that.
Yet, if most Heisman voters had their way, they would've changed their vote after the Rose. Vince may have "choked" but the offense still scored 40 and it was a rivalry game. I have to take what you say with a grain of salt because you were the loudest Carr advocate four years ago.
it's not a postseason award; it honors the best player during the regular season. well, reggie did slightly better in his rivalry game. but i don't they counted the stats, it being against a PAC-10 team and all... yeah, it was lonely in the david carr camp; all those people congregating with joey harrington. i thought carr was the best QB in the draft; peppers the best player. once carr became the choice, i was fine with it; saw a lot to like, a load of potnetial. seemed a good fit. here, btw, is what i wrote on jan. 3, 2002 about peppers... kind of interesting to go back and revisit; very prophetic:
Hey, I was a David Carr fan too. I thought he was an outstanding college QB and would be a good pro QB, and I thought the Texans made the right choice at the time. If I am not mistaken, Carr is still the best QB prospect out of that draft. But if Carr was in THIS draft, I would be hard pressed to take him over Leinart. And with Vince Young, it is just no contest. Carr might have a slightly stronger arm (they both have funky deliveries), but VY beats him in spades in every other attribute I can think of (size, athleticism, field sense) and has a more supported case or fewer questions in other areas (team leadership, raising his game against better competition, record of team winning and coming from behind, composure under pressure, etc). Considering Carr is 4 years older now and hasn't exactly torn up the league (despite no other QB draftee doing that either), no question I'd take my chances with building my team with VY and ridding Carr and his contract for whatever I can get. Right financial move, and right talent move. Technically it is to recognize the most outstanding college football player, it doesn't say non-postseason award. Sometimes voters mail in their votes before the season is done, and sometimes they wait until after post-season conference championship games. The whole thing is a mess really. Besides, it is pretty obvious who was the best college football player after the Rose Bowl. The voters missed it because they based their votes on highlights and maybe a late season game or two instead of watching enough whole games by both players throughout the season. In fact in Pac-10 country they were pushing Leinart instead of Bush most of the season, it was a very fickle process. Those of us who watched a lot of whole games with both players knew Vince Young was the best college football player. It isn't the first time the best college football player didn't win the Heisman. Just look at it this way, if ML's fumble versus ND stays in bounds instead of out of bounds SC loses and PSU plays Texas in the Rose Bowl. VY is a landslide winner of the Heisman. Does whether that ball stay in bounds or out really effect the degree either Bush or VY is the "most outstanding college football player", obviously not. Just goes to show you the Heisman is determined by lots of factors more important than who is the best player. We all know who the best college football player was last year, had VY carried Texas to a last 2nd loss against SC (say LenDale makes the 4th down) it would still have been easy to determine who the best player on the Rose Bowl field. Regardless who scored last one offensive 1st round draftee (VY) of Texas went toe-to-toe on the scoreboard with 5-8 1st round offensive draftees (Bush, ML, LenDale, Jarrett, Justice, and maybe Byrd, Latui and Steve Smith) off of SC. Even SC alum's (Lott, Allen) recognized who the most special player on the field was, the didn't need the end score to tell them that once they saw all players play.
You'll never win in a debate, too many have made up their minds on this one. It is frustrating to debate with some of these guys because I am not sure they uderstand the game very well. I like VY but the VY guys that slam Bush irritate the piss out of me as well.
What top ranked defense did USC go up against other than Texas? #34 Arkansas #38 Fresno St. #44 Oregon #46 CAL #75 Notre Dame #86 Arizona #94 Washington #102 Hawaii #105 Stanford #106 Washington St. #113 UCLA #114 Arizona St. http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org
You cannot say that VY would have been a landslide winner. The vote was 780 something to 79 for first place votes. If the first plae voting was closer than you might have an arguement but VY basically got 10% of the first place votes Bush did, I doubt one play would have reversed the voting.
