Chron: Francis would "love" to play the 2... On the Rockets

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51377

 

Hey Steve, what is the assist to turnover ratio of those point guards that shoot as much as you?

To bad there is not a stat for number of wasted possessions because of bad passes, dribbling the clock away and just flat out making the wrong deccisions.

I would love to have a different point guard. And move Steve to the 2 with Cat coming off of the bench.

Imagine Cat, MoT and Cato all coming off of the Bench! Instant offense, instant offense and instant defense.

 

This guy doesn't even understand his own game. No wonder our team is so screwed up.

 

interesting. Amid all the turmoil, I wonder if Francis is hiding from Cat while calling up Rudy saying that it would be o.k. if he were to move Mobley for a point guard?



You gotta have hope

 

Maybe Francis and Rudy have wink, wink, discussed the possibility of brining in Dre......The Clips have been reported to have been interested in CAT, and after the last game, I bet the Clips want to move him. Dre has put up very good numbers prior to the Clippers and is a solid point guard....POINT GUARD, not a combo like the Rox currently have two of. You know what they say, "Jack of All Trades, Master of NONE". Dre brings an assist machine into the fold. I imagine POSEY would be much better the instant that a deal was announced, he's such a strong finisher.

Would we have Bird rights if we could trade for Dre? It does appear like Miller has interest in Utah! Man, I'd love to steal him from them via trade and locking him down to a multi-year contract.

He's a solid point guard and has gone nuts against most of the big boys, Dallas, Lakers, Rockets (not a big surprise there), Kings. I'd love to see Dre in the pajamas passing it to MING!!!

The comment from Francis did not seem provoked, so there may be something to it....

 

Wow, it's really starnge for him to say this.

Isn't this horrible for his image, at the very least? He didn't go to Vancouver so that he'd play the PG position.

This is very intruiging though. If we needed to move Mobley to improve our backcourt, would he be OK with it?

Eric Snow is a nice player to have. Mobley is a Philly native isn't he?

Eric Snow and Derrick Coleman for Mobley and Cato? Solves a lot of contract issues, we'd have 10M off the books in each of the next 2 years, and Snow is perfect since he has experience playing with a Hybrid Guard. I know it's giving up a lot of talent in Mobley and Cato, but with Coleman gone next season, we'd be in great shape. Especially considering teams would love to have Rice in the offseason. We'd be in great shape to add complimentary pieces to this team around Francis and Yao, at the 3 and 4 spots at least.

This is very interesting.

 

Interesting points on Andre Miller, land_sharks. I actually think Miller may end up being the best option for the Rockets to pursue. His value has dropped some which could mean the Rockets could acquire him w/o giving up a fortune imo. A deal including Mobley and Nachbar may not be too far off. This would allow the Rockets to keep Griffin and add a true PG to the fold. Plus, the Rockets would have Miller as a RESTRICTED FA and could match any offers for him this offseason. Can you imagine Miller pushing the break with Francis and Posey running the wings?

Also, this deal does make a whole lot of sense from the Clippers front. Based on various articles posted in this forum, the Clippers will let Kandi walk and want to move Miller and would like to build around Brand and Odom. Baylor and co. like Marko Jaric a good bit also in the backcourt. Cuttino Mobley is good friends with Lamar Odom and Bostjan Nachbar is close with Marko Jaric. Odom probably wont command max dollars this summer thus the Clips can commit max dollars to only one players (Brand) and have the rest of the players at reasonable contracts.

 

Something is brewing. Will happen soon. I remember when the PF position was having problem with too many players, I watched some interview at shootaround and Rudy said point blankly that the problem would just run its course and be solved. Couple days later, KT was traded.

It sounds all familiar now SF is saying something like this. Expect trade by deadline.

 

Maybe there's something like Mobley and Boki for Miller going on, and then the Rockets ask what it would take to make it Miller and Brand?

I'm not sold on Miller though. He hasn't shown that ability to make his teammates loko better, despite averaging 9+ assists a game. He holds on to the ball as much as Moochie does, and thinks he's a good shooter. Then again, maybe he's played for the 2 worst run organizations in the entire league since he's been in the league?

Cato, Mobley, Griffin and Boki for Brand and Miller? Salaries are WAY WAY off though. Around 8M off I think. LOL, don't think the rest of the Clippers' roster combined makes that much. Don't they have any big contracts?

 

Sane,

Eric Snow would probably be second on my list behind Andre Miller. It seems the Sixers could be ready for a good sized move before the deadline. I remember in the past some of the insiders on this BBS mentioned that Rudy really likes the game of Keith Van Horn. Rudy seems to love inside-outside players b/c it really helps the teams "spacing". I wonder what it would take to get Snow and Van Horn. Personally, I'd like to keep Cato b/c it is important for this team to have one tough and aggressive player in the frontcourt imo. Many would probably disagree, but I would have no problem giving Mobley, Griffin, Taylor or something along those lines to get Snow and Van Horn.

 

mmanal,

i like snow myself, but your proposed trade leaves us with a major defecit at the P.F. Teams would shove it down our throat and we would be forced to try to outscore them. We would have to keep at least one of our P.F's

 

studogg,

What I would do in that instance is allow Cato to backup both 4 and 5 (increasing his mins a bit) and also use Terence Morris if necessary at the 4 spot.

 

MManal,

I see what you're saying abotu Van Horn, and Snow is #1 on my list. But I think I'd rather stick with MoT as he's slightly tougher, and is bigger as well. I'm not sure I'd go to war in the West with a healthy van Horn at PF as opposed to a healthy Mo Taylor. If MoT is not healthy, then Philly wouldn't make the deal anyway, right?


I tinkered with some trades, and this is quite a big trade, but MOST (75%) of the plaeyrs included are fillers/expiring contracts/backups. There are maybe 5 main players in this 3-team trade that takes a lot out of our "talent" vault, but it positions us brilliantly for the future, present, while also adjusting our team to its identity:

Houston trades: PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.7 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (4.7 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 18.4 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (18.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.0 apg in 41.6 minutes)
C Kelvin Cato (4.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.7 minutes)
SF Glen Rice (9.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.3 apg in 27.9 minutes)

Houston receives: PF Brian Skinner (6.4 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PF Samuel Dalembert (6.4 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PG Eric Snow (12.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 6.7 apg in 38.8 minutes)
C Derrick Coleman (7.9 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.5 minutes)
C Cherokee Parks (2.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.3 minutes)
C Sean Rooks (3.4 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 15.8 minutes)
PF Elton Brand (18.0 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.5 apg in 40.1 minutes)





Philadelphia trades: PG Kenny Satterfield (4.1 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 15.0 minutes)
PF Brian Skinner (6.4 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PF Samuel Dalembert (6.4 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PG Eric Snow (12.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 6.7 apg in 38.8 minutes)
C Todd MacCulloch (7.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.4 minutes)
C Derrick Coleman (7.9 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.5 minutes)

Philadelphia receives: C Kelvin Cato (4.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 40 games)
SF Glen Rice (9.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.3 apg in 31 games)
PF Melvin Ely (3.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.1 apg in 22 games)
SF Corey Maggette (16.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 35 games)
PG Andre Miller (14.6 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 7.0 apg in 47 games)





L.A. Clippers trades: C Cherokee Parks (2.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.3 minutes)
PF Melvin Ely (3.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.1 apg in 11.6 minutes)
SF Corey Maggette (16.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.5 minutes)
PG Andre Miller (14.6 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 7.0 apg in 37.8 minutes)
C Sean Rooks (3.4 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 15.8 minutes)
PF Elton Brand (18.0 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.5 apg in 40.1 minutes)

L.A. Clippers receives: PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 44 games)
PG Moochie Norris (4.7 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 48 games)
SG Cuttino Mobley (18.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.0 apg in 40 games)
PG Kenny Satterfield (4.1 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 32 games)
C Todd MacCulloch (7.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 42 games)



Final teams:

Ming/Coleman/Rooks
Brand/MoT/Skinner
Posey/T-Mo/Boki
Francis/Posey
Snow/Francis/Maddox

Comments: Cut Dalembert and Parks, Coleman is 10M off the books THIS offseason to make Mo's contract a little easier to chew, and Snow and Francis play too many minutes for better backups, but it's possible to sign minimum contracts in the offseason.

Cato/Ely/Re-sign Dalembert
Van Horn/Thomas
Maggette/Rice
Iverson/McKie
Miller/McKie/Salmons

Best team out of this trade, IMO Lots of contract issues in the summer is a negative

Kandi/Macculough(future starter)/Wang
Griffin/Wilcox
Odom/Fowlkes/Q Richardson
Mobley/Q Richardson
Jaric/Moochie/Dooling

Plus a future FIRST rounder from Philadelphia, Chicago's obligation to Houston, Houston's own second round pick within the next 2 years. Philadelphia also owns an exception which they would recieve btw.

It's a blockbuster, but I'm sure we'd still slip is as the #8 seed. I know, the Clippers get screwed, but they make a LOT finnancially, and they gain 3 second rounders and a first rounder in addition to Griffin and a starter at C next year.

 

Totally agree, but I do think Steve's comments are important. He's an amazing athlete, but his basketball I.Q. combined with Cat's has made this the most frustrating team to watch I've ever seen.

Steve does make plays, but as a point guard he's a problem. I agreed with everyone here over the off-season and early on that as a 2 he'd be a liability defensively and would probably unleash his worst basketball instincts, and patience was the best option.

Not anymore. This is Steve's 4th year and I've seen more maturity this year, and his above statements show me that the future of this team is all he cares about. I've hated the FIRE RUDY threads, because the organization knew Steve was a project at the 1 and they planned to be patient when we dealt for him. But Gene Peterson's about to have a stroke this season exclaiming "dribble, dribble, dribble" from our entire backcourt. MoT hasn't been himself physically, and Eddie's still about a year away, but our offensive struggles start in the backcourt.

Mooch has been dreadful. And even if Steve continues to start at the 1, we need a veteran point guard with at least average point guard abilities. The Yao factor has multiplied and magnified our stupid play. And to me, Steve's comments indicate Cat's on the the trading block bigtime.

I don't believe Steve would have made those comments unless he knew Cat's not happy and the Rockets felt that had to approach Steve about potential deals. Why wouldn't Cat be happy? The guy hires a publicist in the off-season to increase his exposure so he gets to the all-star game which he's always said for him it's a big deal. Then Yao hits town, pulls more media attention to the Rockets than ever before and Cat's profile shrinks while his game gets more intensely scrutinized.

The Elton Brand rumors may have had some substance after all. But for the Rockets to open up their roster (excepting Steve & Yao) they probably feel they've got to get a good point guard, even if Steve remains the starter. Unless the Clips are even dumber than we think they are and they absorb huge contracts we're weighted down by, Miller is out of the equation. Unless a third team's eyeing a Clip (and there's a lot of talent to look at)and is ready to dangle a point guard to make it work. The Clips have to deal because Sterling's cheap and even they aren't stupid enough to let players get away for nothing. Given that their season is the usual train wreck, they can't afford to wait. It now seems to me the Rockets are holding back someone (not likely draft picks) that a team wants, and it's not Cat. Funny thing is CD and Rudy don't have the luxury of patience with this team that other GMs and coaches drool over.

The Rox are going to deal somewhere. And I'm not sure it's the right thing to do in the long term. But the Steve/Cat axis is pretty irrelevant now. I can see us making a deal that reeks of temporary desperation that still can point this franchise and fandom to where Steve thinks it's heading. Brand would improve this team, but the focus of whatever's being discussed I think now is a point guard. How ironic. And how typical it is that Rudy and CD are sticking to their guns about Eddie which, before Yao, was a make or break point decision for this franchise.

Alexander's in a weird position here. Rudy's been nationally eulogized (The Punch) and scrutinized with quotes from unnamed coaches skewering him. And there's no way he fires Rudy until after the new arena is open with every Rocket you can think of is in attendance. Les has over extended his mouth, but he is not as stupid as he sounds to us Texans. I actually think whatever pressure he applies now could be positive. Steve's comments really make me feel Les already has.

I don't rationally understand why making the playoffs has to be so important to this team, this year, but I know it is. And it's not the max contract Steve has that's changed our focus to the nexus point of our problems. It's Yao. He will change the league, but it's starts with changing the team he's on. Rudy and CD are on a hell of a learning curve here too. Which direction they pull the trigger on is gonna be a killer. The safest thing they can do is nothing, which may be the best option. But I don't believe that's an option anymore (so much for my preseason threads, harumph).

Anybody looking forward to watching an all-star game where no one plays defense and Yao's receiving great passes and he's passing to open guys? It could be a glimpse into the future.

 

If the Rockets want both Miller amd Brand, the best deal would e

Houston Trades

Cuttino Mobley
Eddie Griffin
Kelvin Cato
Future First Round Pick or the Drew Obligation

for

Andre Miller
Elton Brand
Eric Piatkowski
Sean Rooks

Houston makes the trade because they get a true point guard, top 3-5 PF and then two expiring contracts. If the Rockets could dump 2 of the following contracts in the offseason, Glen Rice, Mo Taylor, or Moochie, resigning both Brand and Miller isn't out of the question.

LA considers the trade because they get a C to start after Kandiman leaves this season. They also get a cheap, very talented SG, and a shot blocking PF with a ton of potential. Plus we all know how the Clippers love those picks.

 

While I don't think this trade will ever go down there is logic to it.

Steerling gets 2 players under market value (Cato and Cat) and a 3rd that is tied up for the next 2.5 years that could become a dominant player (EG).

Cato would step in and allow the Clipps to trade Kandi with very little drop off in production and he would be a lot cheaper than Kandi's asking price.

Cat gives them one of the top scoring guards in the league at a discount price considering todays market.

Eddie gives them the potential superstar power forward replacement for the next 2.5 years.

 

Has it reached the point we have to make a trade? This team and players have proved when they play togather and make the extra pass and the open man takes the shot, instead of someone forcing one up that they can play with and beat the best teams in the league.

Are we looking to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade, or have we give up on this group every playing togather for more then a couple games at a time?

 

EJ Tucker:

The question isn't whether the team is half-decent, but rather: what kind of growth potential do we have? Our back court consists of two nearly identical players. That doesn't usually work all that well.

Just like you wouldn't want to play with 5 centers, you also don't want to play with two undersized shooting guards with bad court vision.