there's quite a flap developing about Kerry's claim to have been on a gunboat in cambodia on christmas, 1968. Kerry described is thusly, in a speech on the senate floor in 1986 about Nicaragua: "Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me ...." here's a photocopy of the senate record from that day: earlier, Kerry eloborated on that day to the boston globe in 1979: ""I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real." The Christmas in Cambodia storywas repeated as recently as July 7, 2004 by Michael Kranish, a principal biographer of Kerry from The Boston Globe, and the author of the recent piece preporting to retract one of the swiftvets claims. OnHannity & Colmes Kranish indicated that Kerry's Christmas in Cambodia was a critical turning point in Kerry's life. the swiftvets Joh O'neill. after being threatened with a lawsuit by the kerry campaign has sent the following letter to radio and TV outlets: "The story is a total preposterous fabrication by Kerry. Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry's claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. If necessary, similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec -- easily locatable on any map more than fifty miles from Cambodia. Kerry himself inadvertently admits that he was in Sa Dec for Christmas Eve and Christmas and not in Cambodia, as he had stated for so many years on the Senate Floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Exhibit 27, Tour, pp. 213-219. Sa Dec is hardly "close" to the Cambodian border. In reality, far from being ordered secretly to Cambodia, Kerry spent a pleasant night at Sa Dec with "visions of sugar plums" dancing in his head. Exhibit 27, p. 219. At Sa Dec where the Swift boat patrol area ended, there were many miles of other boats (PBR's) leading to the Cambodian border. There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam." there's an additional problem with the story: Nixon wasn't president in 1968, LBJ was, and by the next christmas, Kerry was no longer in Vietnam. so john, were you just embelishing for effect in 1979 and 1986? i realize your memory is a bit hazy about all aspects of your behaior between 1970 and 2003, but many of us wonder, what elese are you hiding, or making up about your time in 'nam? after all, you brought it up...
Either he was there or he wasn't, and if he wasn't, he's lying about it. Sounds like the latter to me. That's the key question to me - is he lying about it?
another cite: http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2004/08/a_cite_for_swif.html -- Kerry-MIA Copyright, 1992. The Associated Press. All rights reserved. By JOHN DIAMOND Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- Navy Lt. John Kerry knew he had no business steering his Mekong River patrol boat across the border into Cambodia, but orders were orders. A quarter-century later, Sen. John Kerry says newly declassified documents have convinced him fellow servicemen captured on such trips were left behind at war's end. Kerry, D-Mass., announced this week at hearings of the Senate Select Committee on POW-MIA Affairs he chairs that as many as 133 U.S. servicemen may have been left behind, either as unrecorded fatalities or prisoners of war, when the Vietnam War ended in 1973. This conclusion that the government failed to account for all its soldiers, sailors and fliers did not come easily for the 48-year-old senator. Through two decades of politicaKl activism since he returned from Vietnam, first as an opponent of the war, then as a lawmaker, Kerry has remained studiously neutral on the POW-MIA question. Veterans groups and researchers of varying credibility raised allegations and published photographs suggesting that Americans might still be languishing in Southeast Asian stalags. Bereaved family members pleaded with lawmakers to rescue loved ones they were convinced were still alive. Kerry said only that there was evidence that needed to be explored. "I've always said there's evidence. But I'm not going to draw any conclusions about this until we do a sound, sensible job," Kerry said in an interview. "This conclusion was drawn from documents which no one saw 10 years ago." But for Kerry, who spent six violent months commanding a patrol boat on the Mekong River, there's always been a ring of truth to allegations of abandoned Americans. By Christmas 1968, part of Kerry's patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia. "We were told, `Just go up there and do your patrol. Everybody was over there (in Cambodia). Nobody thought twice about it," Kerry said. One of the missions, which Kerry, at the time, was ordered not to discuss, involved taking CIA operatives into Cambodia to search for enemy enclaves. "I can remember wondering, `If you're going to go, what happens to you,"' Kerry said.
ok, this is from drudge so it's worth taking w/ a grain of salt, but it's notable that even some of his band-o-brothas are not backing him up on this story. http://drudgereport.com/dnc91.htm -- SWIFT OFFICERS AND VETS: KERRY LIED ABOUT SPENDING CHRISTMAS IN CAMBODIA **Exclusive** Since the early 1970s, Kerry has spoken and written of how he was illegally ordered to enter Cambodia. Kerry mentioned it in the floor of the Senate in 1986 when he charged that President Reagan’s actions in Central America were leading the U.S. in another Vietnam. Here’s what he said as excerpted from the new book, UNFIT FOR COMMAND: I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared--seared--in me. DRUDGE has learned from the accounts of Swift Boat officers and Kerry’s crewmembers that Kerry was never in Cambodia. UNFIT FOR COMMAND authors charge that Kerry made it all up. “Despite the dramatic memories of his Christmas in Cambodia, Kerry’s statements are complete lies,” according to John O’Neil, co-author and the Swift Boat commander who took over Kerry’s boat. “Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War. . . . he was more than fifty miles away from Cambodia.” Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13’s patrol areas extended to Sa Dec, about 55 miles from the Cambodian border. . . . Tom Anderson, Commander of River Division 531, who was in charge of PBRs (small river patrol crafts] confirmed that there were no Swifts anywhere in the area and they would have been stopped had they appeared. All the living commanders in Kerry’s chain of command . . . deny that Kerry was ever ordered to Cambodia. They indicate that Kerry would have been seriously disciplined or court-martialed had he gone there. At least three of the five crewmen on Kerry’s boat, Bill Zaldonis, Steven Hatch, and Steve Gardner, deny that they or their boat were ever in Cambodia. O’Neill observed that the Cambodia incursion story is not included in Tour of Duty (Kerry’s recent biography). Instead, Kerry replaced the story with a report about a mortar attack that occurred on Christmas Eve 1968 “near the Cambodian border” in a town called Sa Dec and Christmas day was spent at the base writing entries in his journal. After conducting interviews and research, authors of Unfit for Command conclude, “The truth is that Kerry made up his secret mission into Cambodia.... the lie about the illegal Cambodian incursion painted his superiors up the chain of command. . . . as villains faced down by John Kerry, a solitary hero in grave and exotic danger and forced illegally against his will into harm’s way.” Developing...
Bush has made "being a war President" the key trait in this election, since that is what he has defined himself as since the beginning of this election cycle. Kerry responded by citing his Vietnam service. Saying that "Kerry has made Vietnam the key question in this election" is misleading.
What if Kerry is lying about it? I'm starting to get debate fatigue with all these red herring's about Kerry's Viet Nam service, and I haven't even looked at it. But I will say that it's funny how Bush didn't lie, he was mistaken. It wasn't his fault he had bad intel, but either Kerry was there or he's lying. I'll also say that if Kerry did lie decades ago, does it match this lie told by the administration WHILE THEY WERE IN OFFICE? http://bbs2.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?s=&postid=1455948#post1455948
don't see how THK's shove it comment fit's in the debate of whether or not JFKjr was in cambodia or not.
Why do Bush supporters want to talk about anything and everything other than their candidate's record of the past four years?
I was merely comparing Kerry's alleged lie from decades ago to Cheney's definite proven lie while in office. The post I hope to have linked to has a link of video showing Cheney's big fat lie. I will check and edit my original link. Feel free to take a look.
Hey look! I just dug up a past lie that's relevant! Basso, does this mean you can stop sneering when you say "Bush lied" or do you still believe that he hasn't?
Come on Sam, Bush just didn't remember correctly. It doesn't matter that Bush is only talking about short period of time, with perhaps the most important aspect of his presidency. Bush isn't intentionally misleading anyone. Kerry however.... That's a different story. He's obviously lying.
would love to hear kerry talk about anything he's done in his 18 years in congress. it's MIA from the campaign trail though, although i guess that's one MIA kerry doesn't care about...
nice to see you guys trying to change the subject though. wonder if that'll work for kerry? maybe he'll have to stop talking about vietnam then and concentrate on his senate record, or lack thereof....
