I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread but it looks like the GARM has become the CNT forum too so Mods please feel free to move it if another forum is better. I've only been able to watch snippets of the CNT WBC games and have been reading through articles about them and the threads and it looks like the major weakness of the CNT is their guards. That got me wondering is is it easier to produce good, or at least decent, big men since that is mostly a matter of natural size and athleticism vs guards since that takes much more skill? Obviously athleticism greatly helps for guards but it seems like being a guard especially in the international game is a much greater skill position. The same also seems to apply to the NBA where a fantastically athletic guard like Steve Francis failed to like up to his potential without honing basic skills of passing and ball handling. So from the CNT position it seems like in a country of 1.2 billion it wouldn't be hard to find some athletic big men or swift guys who can run up and down the court but without learning the skills needed for being a good guard like passing, ball handling and perimeter D the CNT teams will always be hamstrung in international competition. Yao had mentioned that the CNT players need to play more outside of the PRC to get those skills and if this is the case it seems to me like the best thing for the CNT to do is to get all of their players especially their guards playing overseas for the next year so by 2008 they can learn the skills and get the highlevel of competition they will need to be successful in the Olympics.
to be fair, i dont think the guards are as bad as people make them out to be. Like the Slovenia game, they played good D ALL game long and forced Slovenia to take mostly long range jumpshots. Hard to make those shots fall all game long, and CNT inevitably crept back in the game. People however seem to be judging the guards performance by the scoreboard, which is why some people think the guards "picked up their D in the second half".
Chinese guard does not lack skill. They cann't handle any physical defense at all. I guess they do not ever face tough d in China, so when someone guard them close or body them up, they totally have no idea how to play.
I do not believe the problem(S) could be resolved within 2 years. Sending your players play in higher level leagues doesn't necessary mean they will gain significant playing minutes automatically. Whats good to spend entire season to warm the bench for your teammates? We sent our top 3 centers to the highest level basketball league but I don't see the other 2 improved their skills very much after playing in NBA for years. How many of our "guards" do you think will be welcome or desperately needed by basketball clubs in Europe and NBA? Even if we eventually sent half a dozen players out, in addition to Yao, that still doesn't make a decent basketball team. I am not saying it is helpless to not send players out but if someone think that is the ultimate solution, he is wrong. IMHO, CBA needs to improve the level of competitions of their league. Not only players, coaches, trainers, and tons of areas needed to be improved. How to do so? You tell me.
I agree. I remember this past year that a report came out saying that Yi Jianlian would enter the draft if the team drafting him could guarantee 10 minutes a game (which obviously no team can do), so clearly the CBA is thinking along the same lines. Sitting on the bench and merely practicing helps nobody's career (see Darko, Jermaine O'Neal, etc). People need game action to learn and improve, and right now it is very uncertain that any of these guys can get PT outside the CBA....
The CNT MUST send players overseas for them to reach their potential because the Chinese basketball leagues just aren't good enough. Their top level players must be pushed to their limit so that when the WCs or Olympics happen they won't be so shocked at the higher level and different style of play. If Chinese basketball remains insular, they will improve very very slowly and international competition will always be extremely difficult for them. It is probably too late to improve much for 2008. Maybe by 2012 the CNT can field a team with a good chance to medal. The USA aside, basketball teams from around the world keep improving and the CNT has to worry about keeping up. It's possible they get left behind and do worse in 2008 than 2004 if they aren't careful. I hope not. It would be so sweet if Yao could lead them to a medal in Beijing.
First of all, the CBA has to rethink their training methods. Look at half the CBA players....they look anorexic. They look weak as ****.
The Chinese guards can be decent if the other teams don't apply pressure on them. But they are simply hopeless against back-court pressure. I think these guys never face that kind of defense in the CBA league. I don't care you have Yao, Shaq or Wilt Chamberlain at center. If their guards can't even bring the ball across the midcourt line, all they can do is just standing there watching turnover after turnover in the backcourt.
*** Moved thread. Sishir, the only reason the other CNT threads are in GARM is because Yao is playing for them currently. This thread is more specifically about the CNT's guards (technically I guess it can be about a lot of stuff, but...)
I agree....I don't think that merely sending players to other leagues around the world is the solution. Even if the players that are sent out do improve, that will improve the CNT team for one generation, but will not improve basketball as whole in the country. I think for Chinese basketball to improve, the only way is the improve the competition of the CBA. Right now all the foreign players that are in the CBA are second class players overseas...some of them are not even that...The Chinese sporting autorities does not lack money, they should import some seriously good players into the league to improve the leagues overall talent. You look at the NBA...before shooting big men (eg Dirk) were imported, NBA had few or none big men that could shoot. But now, more and more big men are shooting from the outside. I think that importing top class foreign talent, now just coaches and training staff will increase the competition of the league...and MAYBE improve the Chinese players....this might be a better option than just sending players off overseas.
I don't know if they were individually that bad or not... mosty it seems weird they simply did not figure out how to break the full court press/trap that Greece played pretty much all second half. The same friggin defense for an entire half and they never figured out how to handle it... they looked like they never saw such a defense before.
Chinese players don't need to go to Europe. They don't need to go to the NBA either(cause IF theyll accept them, they'll be used as bench warmers). Their only solution would be to go to colleges, were they could develop to their team force. But two years is not an adequate time for an entire team to become so much better than they are now. However we're talking China, it's a big country with big potential. Who knows they might come up with something till the Olympics.
I have heard that they plan to take the whole CNT to Europe over the next two years and play the Euro teams at least 30 times a year. So sort of like they would join the Euro league as a team.
Wouldn't be a bad solution infact, if they can do it. They have to carefully pic the teams though, and manage to make those teams play with them. Most European big clubs have a closed schedule for the coming season, even before summer. I can remember the women Spanish National team doing something similar a few years ago, with good results. Then again, you can't force other teams to play their best against you in what in europe we call "friendly" matches. And the only way for them to really improve would be if other teams would play against them as if they'd win a trophy winning. They could also travel to the USA for games and play against college teams as a team. I can remember we improved our game as a team back in the 80's doing that for a few summers.
You're only as good as your weakest link. As dominant as Yao can be in world play...its going to be the guards that make or break the entire team. They couldn't even get the ball down the court. Credit Greece for throwing really effective full-court presses but the Chinese guards seemed like they have never even seen a full-court press. I saw an inbounds play where everyone stood in one spot, not a single player moved except for Yao. It was probably a designed play for Yao but the guy couldn't even get the ball to him w/o a defender getting a hand on it. If the CNT can't improve their guard play, they'll never medal or win big in world play, period.
They should probably start sending their best young kids to the US for highschool (even if for a year or two) with an eye towards US colleges as well. That used to be the best way for a European to make it big as well. As has been said, no way China can improve if they stay insular. Also, for those saying that it would be useless to send players to the NBA or Europe to be bench warmers I disagree. Even if that were to happen - worse case scenario - they would be valuable assets for the Chinese program when they come back because they would have been immersed in better basketball cultures (as long as they remained part of the system as coaches or advisors). That could work towards shifting training, coaching, etc in China. I think that is a big part of what Yao Ming was saying.
Hm, depends, you never know, but i doubt a player can improve as much as you'd want them, just by joining an advanced basketball culture. Sure, they'll learn a few things, but they HAVE to play to improve their game which is the required. I've seen a lot of europeans going to the NBA to become bench warmers and then coming back worse for a while, since they forgoten how the game is played. Chinese players are NOT that bad as to need that. On the other hand, even what I said about colleges could prove to be wrong. Most teams outside USA/NBA rely quite a bit to 3-point or outside shooting. There was this player I'm quite familiar with Serb Miroslav Pecharski, ever heard of him? They've send him to a US college, were (quoting coach Ivkovic): "He learned to slum dunk perfectly, but forgoten to actually shoot the ball"(which was required by good european centers back then). He never progressed as much as the Serbs(then Yugoslavs) hoped. They have to pre-plan their moves.
