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China's disasterous health care system could mean world flu epidemic

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    A very disturbing article about how China's awful health care system and history of disease cover-ups could mean that thousands if not millions of people around the world could die from the bird flu. President Bush today announced how the US would spend >$7 billion on prevention of the bird flu for Americans.

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9787848/site/newsweek/

    The Flimsy Wall of China
    It may be the epicenter of an epidemic, and its health-care system is in tatters. That's a recipe for disaster.

    By Melinda Liu
    Newsweek International
    Updated: 9:58 a.m. ET Oct. 23, 2005
    Oct. 31, 2005 issue - Nobody in Zhang Rong's village in coastal China knows much about the danger of a bird-flu pandemic. The 37-year-old farmer has enough to worry about. A nearby business park wants to take over her mushroom farm. Neighbors are dying of untreated cancers that some believe came from eating pesticide-tainted produce. One tenth of the family's annual income is spent on medical expenses, including sending Zhang's two kids to a public hospital when they get sick. Much of that cash goes into so-called red envelopes—bribes—for doctors who otherwise prescribe expensive medicines in retaliation for not getting a "gift." Few of the 4,000 villagers have medical insurance. "The government doesn't pay for a thing," she gripes. Ask about bird flu and Zhang tosses out a chilling wish: "I hope bird flu ravages China—to prove to the leadership what's wrong with health care in the countryside."

    Zhang may be closer to getting her apocalyptic wish. Bird-flu jitters are spreading worldwide, as the tempo of new cases continues to escalate. Last Wednesday, in China's first reported H5N1 outbreak in months, mainland authorities revealed bird flu had killed 2,600 birds on a poultry farm in the Chinese province of Inner Mongolia, less than a day's drive from Zhang's home. Taiwanese authorities discovered the H5N1 virus among exotic fowl on a ship from mainland China. Suspected cases have emerged from Moscow to Macedonia.

    As health officials gird for what some scientists fear could eventually turn into a global health crisis, one of the weakest links in the world's defenses is China's tattered health-care system. Many experts think China could be the epicenter of any bird-flu pandemic. Indeed, China has ideal conditions for fostering a new human flu pathogen. On top of China's 1.3 billion people, it also has 14 billion poultry and 70 percent of the world's wild waterfowl coming to visit, says Dr. Julie Hall, a WHO representative in Beijing. It also has half the world's pigs, which tend to harbor human viruses that can combine with bird-flu bugs to form human pathogens. Although Beijing said last week that it would close its borders if a mutated version of H5N1 infected humans, experts fear that the virus would slip through China's surveillance system in the first crucial weeks and quickly overwhelm its health-care system. "In big cities, control is good, but in remote areas, maybe not," says Christine Liu of Taiwan's CDC. "There's nobody to take samples, nobody to test the samples."

    During the SARS epidemic two years ago, China took a lot of heat from health officials for its slow response and secrecy. Beijing instituted reforms in its hospital system that led to greater transparency and speed in reporting outbreaks. But these reforms haven't trickled down to all the provinces. SARS reporting took place mainly at the hospitals, where doctors would observe the number of patients who came in with fever and other symptoms, and pass that information to Beijing. In health-department surveys during the summer, nearly a third of Chinese said they don't go to the hospital when they need to, and half avoid seeing a doctor.

    A big problem is a collapse in China's social safety net. Once upon a time, the country took care of its citizens' health care from cradle to grave. Chinese were poor, but Mao's policies were egalitarian. Back then, Maoist "people's communes" handled everything from providing medical services to transporting harvested crops to the state. But market reforms launched in the 1980s dismantled the communes and allowed family farmers to sell their own crops —for a profit. Peasant incomes surged but nothing replaced the health-care void. Although three quarters of China's 1.3 billion people live in rural areas, virtually none of them has medical insurance. Even in cities, quality health care is often a privilege of the wealthy. "The present reform of the medical and health system is basically not successful," says Ge Yanfeng, a senior official at a State Council think tank who contributed to a recently released critique of the post-Mao public-health system. "It's run into a dead end."

    Chinese complain of soaring prices, bad service and rip-offs in the health system. Today doctors chase kickbacks and wealthy patients. Weaned from government subsidies, hospitals hike prices to survive the marketplace. Corruption is rife because the rising costs of drugs and overhead means fees charged at traditionally low rates cannot help make ends meet.

    These problems leave China's health-care system highly vulnerable to a flu pandemic. According to officials at the World Health Organization, to avert a pandemic that begins in China the government's surveillance system would have to detect an outbreak before it is able to infect more than 20 people, and no more than three weeks have passed since exposure. With numbers higher than this, the virus is likely to spread too far for quarantines and antiviral treatments to be effective. Meanwhile many poor Chinese simply don't bother with hospitals until they're virtually at death's door. And that requires a shift in China's hospital-based surveillance system, says Hall: "Things have improved, but we need to get surveillance mechanisms out into the community, by tracking school absenteeism or drug sales. It's a huge challenge."

    Beijing has been particularly slow to resolve the turf battles and lack of coordination between ministries and departments. Right now, the hidebound Agriculture Ministry is in charge because the virus is killing poultry. When it attacks humans, the Health Ministry will take the lead. But in the meantime nobody's held responsible for scrutinizing that crucial point of bird-to-human transmission.

    Beijing also needs to be more forward-leaning in its public education. Chinese leaders are so obsessed with maintaining social order that they may opt to sacrifice transparency for the sake of keeping citizens blissfully in the dark. That may be far too high a price to pay.

    With Alexandra A. Seno in Hong Kong and Ralph Jennings and Quindlen Krovatin in Beijing

    © 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
     
  2. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    A big problem is a collapse in China's social safety net. Once upon a time, the country took care of its citizens' health care from cradle to grave. Chinese were poor, but Mao's policies were egalitarian. Back then, Maoist "people's communes" handled everything from providing medical services to transporting harvested crops to the state. But market reforms launched in the 1980s dismantled the communes and allowed family farmers to sell their own crops —for a profit. Peasant incomes surged but nothing replaced the health-care void. Although three quarters of China's 1.3 billion people live in rural areas, virtually none of them has medical insurance. Even in cities, quality health care is often a privilege of the wealthy. "The present reform of the medical and health system is basically not successful," says Ge Yanfeng, a senior official at a State Council think tank who contributed to a recently released critique of the post-Mao public-health system. "It's run into a dead end."


    -------------------------------------------------------


    So basically, the problem within China is that it's less socialistic than the U.S. :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Best Rapper is white, best golfer is black, and now this? Signs of the apocalypse.
     
  3. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    So, texxx, are you for universal health care, or government-controlled health care?
     
  4. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Whoa, didn't realize that you were allowed to return. Huh.


    I am for ending corruption in the Chinese health care system. This flu could cause a worldwide loss of life of well into the millions of people.
     
  5. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Why should government be responsible for a health problem? As far as I know, China's health care system has been privatized for quite some time.
     
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Where did I say anything about the government being responsible? Did you read the article, wnes? I suspect you didn't. Please read the section about the doctors and their required bribes. Those idiots could cause the death of millions.
     
  7. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Sure I read it. These corruption problems were *far and between* in the old days when CCP actually had a firm grip on the system. Didn't you reason that from the article?
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    So you're implying that the only way to end the corruption would be to go back to the CCP grip-like days. Brilliant.
     
  9. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Not necessarily implying that. But many current problems could be attributed to CCP's newly acquired Laissez-faire attitude in PRC's health care system. I always thought as a conservative you like that approach. Just a couple of facts for ya texxx. PRC saw itself eradicated a number of infectious diseases when CCP took over the power more than 5 decades ago. Only when China widely opened its boarder did AIDS/HIV epidemic become a serious issue in the current country.
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    ...nevermind that AIDS wasn't a problem 5 decades ago! Helloooo? Nevermind that the opening up of markets in China corresponded with the height of the AIDS problem... Not a direct cause/effect relationship as you imply.

    Corruption is a major problem not only in the Chinese health care system, but across the board in business, politics, etc. Bottom line is that something needs to be done here or millions could die. The world can't afford to have another SARS cover-up on China's part.
     
  11. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Geez, how many people have died from SARS in the whole world since and how many died from Influenza in U.S. in one year alone?

    Talking about the hysteria ...
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    huh? I'm not sure what you're defending at this point.

    I was talking about the cover-up of SARS in China. The world needs to stay on top of the bird flu if it breaks out. I would find it hard to believe that you would disagree with this statement.
     
  13. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    So your at PRO-REGULATION . . which would de anti-DeRgulation

    Rocket River
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Please translate this nonsensical babble. Thanks. I honestly don't know what you're talking about (note spelling of "you're").
     
  15. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Not defending CCP here at all. In fact, I am exposing CCP's ill fated attempt to transform the long held, government-controlled universal health care system into privately managed business type that closely mimics China's evolving market economy. The ugliness just showed its head.

    Do you guys only complain when you perceive a remote health threat that may potentially cause problems on this side of the Pacific Ocean?
     
  16. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    Almost 2 billion people, bad Health care, and a seriouse virus that cannot be contained. seriously, it dosent not sound 2 good.
     
  17. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Here we go....

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=60175

    China "no longer ruling out human bird flu infection"

    Beijing (dpa) - China for the first time Sunday refused to rule out the possibility of human infection of bird flu in three reported pneumonia cases, one of them - a 12-year-old girl - fatal.

    These had been reported in Hunan Province, a Ministry of Health spokesman said. The ministry had invited World Health Organization experts to make a joint investigation, Xinhua news agency said.

    The three had been taken ill with pneumonia symptoms last month following an outbreak of the H5N1 bird flu strain among local poultry.

    The Xinhua report said that since all were from a bird flu outbreak area and suffered from unknown kinds of pneumonia, the spokesman said the human inflection of bird flu could not be ruled out, and further laboratory tests will have to be carried out.
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Are you kidding? Of course governments should step in to control a flu strain (or whatever X disease) that has the chance of become of worldwide pandemic.

    Said government certainly shouldn't resort to lies and cover-ups.
     
  19. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Yes, it was tongue-in-cheek.

    While the initial reactions from PRC in response to SARS were lame and inexusable, their subsequent measures more than adequately made up for it.
     
  20. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Hey Wnes welcome back.

    I don't see what we are arguing about here. I pretty sure all of us don't want to see a world flu epidemic and also that we all agree that the PRC's health care system is in bad shape.

    I enjoy the D & D but honestly there are times when it seems like people are disagreeing for no other reason than because we we're used to disagreeing with each other.
     

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