Guys, I think we need to take a deep breath, this team can learn from tonight's collapse, the coaching staff can learn not to trust Tmac with the ball in his hands when he is clearly off his game. Aaron Brooks will learn that he was the only effective player with the ball in his hands and should not defer to TMac to initiate the play. Also, Landry will eventually learn that Matt Bonner only shoots 3 pointers and to leave him to double a PG at the 3pt line is dumber than a box of hammers. But...that is not what this thread is about, nope, it is about chemistry, or the lack thereof. We have great players who do not compliment each other, but rather get in each others way. The reason that Boston's big 3 worked is that they all had different skillsets that complimented the other ones. KG - down on the block, can hit the midrange and good rebounder- is a finisher, does not need the ball in his hands to initiate. Pierce - Stroke the 3ball and drives into the hole creating for himself and others. - Needs the ball to initiate. Allen - Great 3pt shooter, who moves around picks and puts pressure on the defense as a shooter the minute he steps across half court.... Finisher does not need ball to initiate. Contrast that with the Rockets big 3. Yao and KG are similar in that they both play low, rebound and finish. Tmac and Pierce are similar Artest is not like Allen, he is more like a rougher, tumbler version of Tmac and Pierce. The pieces do not fit......If you traded Artest for someone like Mike Miller, you would see a massive transformation on this team. Now, I am not saying Rick will not figure it out, because I believe Battier can help a lot by starting and letting Ron come off the bench to relieve Tmac etc. So while I am dissappointed in this loss tonight, I can see where the team is going, but I think some tweaking to the rotation, and maybe if it doesn't work out some trading of redundant pieces to get a better mix of players that compliment each other well. When you have Tmac, Artest, and Rafer or Brooks ....they all need the ball, and there is only one ball. Tmac and Artest do not fit together right now......and they may never fit......I know Morey is watching and probably reading.. ......let's hope the team can figure it out, or I think Artest gets traded. DD
if you trade Artest for Miller.. you go back to being over-reliant on Tracy.. and Brooks.. he can learn all he wants.. won't stop defering as you assume he will.. as things are now.. much less so if you completely hand the controls over to Tracy.. again.. this team didn't learn after Portland.. didn't learn after the Lakers.. or maybe they did.. but something else is keeping that knowledge from blossoming.. no amount of learning will do any good if it's not applied..
If your going to trade one of your stars, you don't do it for Mike Miller. Michael Redd would be a better option. I think it's too early to start thinking about trading anyone. The team looked awful early last season chemistry-wise too and the team managed to figure it out.
The difference IMO between this year and last, is that Battier is a better fit for Tmac and Yao than Artest is.... Battier does not need the ball to be effective, and he can finish when passed, whereas Artest always needs to score off the dribble, or at least seems too. Artest and Tmac are similar players as to their dominance of the ball...they do not mesh well. I think Battier coming back and putting Ron on the bench, subbing in early for Tmac will help a lot. DD
heres a good coach maximizing all[/] his players talents.. on this team.. "Tracy go iso all you want.. disregard plays.. go with what you feel is best.. a time wasting dribble exhibition, offense killing 25 footer with 10secs remaining in the 4th? so be it.. " " reserves, listen up, here's all you do.. Hand the ball over to Tracy at half court, let him get his shots. Also, feed Yao in the low post every time. Feed Artest in the low post every time. And, feed Scola in the low post. Other than that, stay out of there way and make your threes. Landry look for cuts and opportunities down low, and look for the midrange open shot when the defense collapses inside. Brooks, always attack there inside defense, and make your threes." if only the people that take this approach.. would realize the futility of it.. it is downright impossible to accommodate such a completely talented team individually..
Tracy (when healthy) and Pierce are similar. But Artest is nothing like Ray Allen, and Yao is nothing like KG. Just totally different skill sets. Offensively, Boston's big three are more versatile and more efficient. Allen and Garnet are proficient at playing off the ball, much more so Artest and Yao. That makes them more valuable in a 5-man offense and easier for the teammates to play with. On defense, I think Tracy and Artest, collectively, are comparableto Allen and Pierce. But Garnett is a superior defender to Yao, obviously. In sum, Boston's Big Three is simply better than ours. We need our stars to play better, but I think the rest of role players have to be playing at a high level as well. Offensive chemistry is going to be challenge again for us.
See therein lies the problem I am talking about, sometimes players do not fit well together and it hurts the team overall, even though individually they might be amazing players. A good team with defined roles can be better than an all-star team with redundant parts. Our starting lineup tonight has some good, and some redundancy, we needed a better fit for AB and Tmac than Artest....because AB and Tmac can facilitate, but they need people to pass to when they get doubled, and especially one that can knock down a deep 3pt shot to clear some space and force the defense to stay honest. Look how good the team played with Wafer in the game? They got the big 14 point lead with him in the game, and as soon as Tmac came in.....with Artest still playing, the offense stopped working. They need a player like Battier/Wafer, or someone that is going to move without the ball, and can hit a catch and shoot 3pt shot. That one small change that seems insigificant will prove invaluable, and make this team better. I am going to watch as it develops, but I could see Morey trading Artest for a better fit if it doesn't get a lot better. DD
Bingo. If anyone plays anything like Allen, it's Battier. We should improve big time with his return. The only other player that plays remotely like Allen, imo, is Brent Barry. He's an excellent 3-point shooter who moves frantically without the ball. Although his defense could be better, he should be utilized better on the offensive end.
Because I think his contract is more easily traded because of his value. If the team does not come together - which I still think they will with Battier...but if not...then.... I would be ok with trading either Tmac or Artest, and may actually prefer that we trade Tmac...but I don't think you should sell low....and Tmac's value is probably too low to percipitate a decent trade. Contrast that with Ron and you get a guy who has a very low contract, and is a known fierce competitor, I think you could get more value for him than from Tmac at this point.... And not hinder your team's salary cap going forward..... At least that is my thinking, I hope I explained it in a decent manner. DD
same would work.. if you paired Artest with Battier.. with Tracy on the bench..? you get practically the same production offensively from the starting 5.. with twice the defense established at the get go.. ? plus a more willing participant in the overall team structured offense..?
One question DaDa. What if Battier is not the magical piece we are missing? I'm not saying he won't be, but isn't that putting a little too much hope on Battier's shoulders? I mean, he's not a max player. He's a glue guy. He's a very good one, but he's not a major piece to this team. At least that was the thinking. Now we are waiting on him to see if he is actually a huge part of this team. I agree with the fact that Artest and T-Mac (and even Yao at times) need the ball a lot to dominate. Maybe it is wrong to have too many of them on the same team. But Battier might be very rusty when he gets back. He probably will be. Just throwing Battier into the mix won't fix the problems. Only time will. I just don't want people to be frustrated with Battier when he comes back and is playing his way back into shape and we're still finding ourselves and still sucking.
The thing right now is that our starting line up has 3 players who score mainly by posting up 1) Yao 2) Artest 3) Scola Even McGrady when we played without Yao last year was mainly posting up and doing a very good job at it. Scola can score off the ball, so he can fit with the others, but it is still a glut. As many have been saying, when Battier, who also scores off the ball comes back, it will help ease this more. If you watch the Rockets (especially today) each possession was like one of the Big 3 (or AB) being like okay its my turn for to try to go 1on1.
I think Battier will come in more ready than the average guy, he is a great competitor and is more ready to play than most coming off injury. Battier knows his limitations, and is practicing his 3ball even now.....which this team desperatly needs. If as you say, Battier comes back and the team continues to struggle with chemistry and identity, I really hope Morey moves one of the redundant pieces for a player like Ray Allen who can stretch the defenses and run around screens. That type of player fits in better with a Tmac or Artest.....as they have a real threat to pass the ball too on the perimeter. DD
I see your point, I just don't agree with it, Scola has proven he doesn't need to post up, and Artest is not all that efficient posting up bigger players... It is more about players needing the ball and trying to solve the opponents defense off the dribble rather than off a pass and moving without the ball. Neither Tmac nor Ron move without the ball, they stand around until they get it.....which is a major problem. KUDOS to all in this thread for the intelligent discussion, it is refreshing to say the least. DD
Biggest difference between Boston Big 3 and w/e you want to call our guys it certainly isn't a Big 3 right now. Biggest difference is attitude. KG brought that team attitude and it showed when you watched Bostons game. The chemistry and the energy. Even with bringing in Artest the Rockets hasn't showed that type of attitude outside of the Dallas and Phoenix game.
Sort of, I agree they could bring more attitude and committment, that certainly helps, but it still doesn't address the lack of smooth flow when you have too many players that need the ball to be successful. There is only one ball......and we need a couple of facilitators/penetrators (PG & SG) a stretch the defense catch and shoot guy (SF) a midrange guy (PF) and a low post threat (C)....that works, and it fits what the Rockets have on the Roster. Low Post = Yao Midrange = Scola 3pt Bomber = Battier Penetrator = Brooks Facilitator = Tmac And you can sub in others as well to fit into the scheme. Low Post - Scola/Artest - even Battier and Tmac occassionally Midrange - Landry/Battier/Tmac 3pt bomber - Tmac/Brooks/Barry/Wafer Penetrator - Rafer/Tmac/Artest Facilitator - Rafer/Brooks/Barry There are numerous scenarios that work, but you need that scheme I mentioned I think to really be successful, it covers all the areas of need, IMO. DD
I just don't think we have the players to run Adelmans offense. Yao is way more effective posting up but instead we mix it up by putting him at the high post a lot. Scola - At the beginning of the year we got him involved in the offense. The last few games he hasn't really touched the ball, sure he has missed some open Jumpers but I think we should post him up at thimes. Artest - The man is worse than Luther Head at dribbling and it is hard to get him easy shots. We should post him up more and let him bruise the guy guarding him in the whole. We already have an inconsistent T-mac camping out at the perimeter but now we have Artest also camping out at the 3 pt line a lot. T-mac - Inconsistent, you just know what you will get from him. I have followed T-mac his whole career and his problem is he doesn't attack as soon as he gets the ball. There are plenty of times where we post T-mac up at the high post and if he goes as soon as he touches the ball he has a clear trip to the basket, but T-mac insist on holding the ball and letting the defense rotate to his side. Rafer - Inconsistent, usually he's struggling. It would be good if he could get T-mac and Yao some easy baskets but he just can't.
