This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention... Not to brag, but it's also in line with what I've been trying to tell people here for months. And the Kuwaitis... Pull their asses out of the fire, and this is the thanks we get. Although, I am a bit surprised that even 22% had a favorable view of the US. I would've thought the figure closer to 5% or so. Just goes to show that no matter what we do, we will be disliked by these populations.
Yep it is all our fault that the leaders of those nations keep all the proceeds from oil while the majority of the populace live in squaler. Yep, it is all the good ole USA's fault, I guess we should just sit back and let them blow each other up. DaDakota
as to Kuwait....if we don't go in the early-90's to assist them, we're bad guys.... we went, and apparently we're still bad guys. oh, well.
The funniest part is how they don't believe Arabs were responsible for the WTC/Pentagon tragedy. That absolutely amazes me. They are so skewed against us from their preaching and teaching of hatred that they wouldn't know the truth if it knocked them over the head(apparently...most of them from what the poll shows). It wasn't enough to have actual passengers from the planes communicate that Arabs had hijacked the planes. They still think the Jews are responsible . How lame is that? If their looking at it like we unconditionally support the Jews and that gave the Arabs involved legitimate reasons to orchestrate the attack, then that's one way of looking at it. But, in the end, it's still Arabs who perpetrated the acts of terror.
Ever heard the term "blinding hatred", Surfguy? Hate-filled ignorance is bliss. Their governments want blissful populations who won't challenge their rule, or they at least want to focus their hatred somewhere else... Apparently no one noticed it when I posted it, but... http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29687 If that doesn't leave you pissed off, nothing will.
The US and Kuwait had a temporary convergence of interest. The US didn't want Saddam to jeopardize a steady supply of cheap oil... and the Kuwaitis didn't want their territory to be occupied. To suppose that the US was being philanthropic is naive. Gratitude is only a normal response to generosity. I'm sure the Astros are glad the Yankees signed Jason Giambi, since that precluded St. Louis from doing so. But such actions do not merit gratitude. I'd be interested to know what Mango thinks about this.
This is perhaps the dumbest thing I've heard Haven repeat (since he's said it before). Regardless of whether it was ALSO in our interest to remove Iraq from Kuwait, the raping and pillaging Iraqis WERE removed from Kuwait by the US. Gratitude is normal when you receive help from someone. Whether that also helps the actor is irrelevant. When you get help, you should show gratitude. Example: You are being mugged on a subway platform, and a cop shows up, pulls the mugger off you, and arrests him. Now it is his/her JOB to do so. That is their primary function. It was not out of generosity that the cop intervened. I still would thank the cop, and show my gratitude for the intervention.
Maybe the Kuwaiti's know,what I do, that we did it for oil, not a love for the sovereignity of Arab states or the Kuwaiti people.. Still I actually would think that Kuwaitis would be grateful. I'm sure at least the dictator of Kuwait, called the emir, and his family are grateful. Maybe the Kuwaitis feel the common sense revulsion toward us since our our post war activitites have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi men women and children. Maybe they dont support our support of the occupation of the post 1967 War boundaries by Israel.
Or maybe they think we're a 'threat to their values' because we believe in things like women shouldn't be bundled up and kept as playthings (unless they like that.... ). Maybe there don't have a rational reason to think that way. Maybe its jealously since they want to be the powerful country. Notice that they don't feel this way about GB or France, or any of the other countries that instituted UN sanctions (yes, please remember those were UN sanctions). Only the US. Maybe its that we don't give rights protection to Palestinians (oh, wait, they never did either. Shunning the Palestinians until it became a way to distract themselves on how piss poor they are running their own countries). Maybe its that they are ridiculously out of it, a huge number saying that either the US or Israel attacked the WTC.
They are backwards ignorant countries. The general populace has no idea what the rest of the world is like, they get misinformation through their media outlets, and they blame us for everything. Isolationism is starting to sound better and better, if it didn't mean that we would be attacked again. Where did I put my Carve up the middle east post? DaDakota
Yes, that must be it. They don't agree with your outlook, so of course, they're ignorant ... what else could it be? (Maybe your smilie means you're kidding, in that case, nevermind) In your earlier post, you mentioned 'the leaders of those nations keep all the proceeds from oil while the majority of the populace live in squaler.' Ummm, what countries are you talking about?? The middle easterners living in squalor? lolol Gimme a break ... they are some of the richest people around, living in utmost luxury. This is ofcourse for citizens of the countries themselves, but by no means do they live in 'squalor'
I believe that was the post in which you said that only the elites hated the US, that the lower classes loved the US and wanted democracy...
Pfft. You say I'm dumb, but you fail to understand even basic principles of causality. That's a terrible example. The cop is performing a civic function, and protecting law-abiding people happens to be part of it. You're grateful he's performing the job he's paid to do. Your example was bad. Let me give you a better one. I'm being mugged by a member of a gang. However, that gang-member is tresspassing on a rival gang's turf. As he's mugging me, a member of the rival gang shoots him. Should I be grateful to him for defending his turf? Even though, in my estimation, he's just as bad as the other guy? Causality. It's all about understanding the causal relationships inherent in actions. What caused the US to defend Kuwait? Was it any interest in protecting Kuwait? No. That was a nice fringe benefit in the eyes of decision-makers. If Kuwait were an unimportant Asian backwater would we have defended them from aggression? No. Why should they be grateful that we protected our own interests? Being grateful would be absurd. "Thank you ever so much for doing what was in your best interest! Even though the spirit of the action is probably interventionistic in a way we're not comfortable with, it happened to help us this time, so we love you!" Whatever. People don't think this way in daily life. If someone acts in such a way I dissapprove... and it happens to benefit me... I don't necessarily feel gratitude. But it would be foolish of me to turn down the benefit.
haven: Uh... That was a dumb comment. When did I say that our goals were purely altruistic or philanthropic? I did not say that, so thanks very much for putting words in my mouth. I said "we pulled their asses out of the fire". Are you, O Logical Speaker of Truth, going to deny that? For whatever reasons, we most definitely pulled their asses out of the fire. Have you totally forgotten all of the documented atrocities that were committed against the Kuwaitis during the war? Are you totally ignoring the fact that there would be no Kuwait if not for our intervention? Only a 19th Iraqi province? Of course we did it for the oil. Everyone with a brain knows that. But it didn't hurt that we actually could liberate the Kuwaitis... No one here has said that liberating Kuwait was done entirely for altruistic purposes, you are simply assuming that someone said that. Why don't you actually read the posts before responding to them? Your other post was more of the same. glynch: Why in the f* should it matter to them why we saved their asses? We did it, and that's all that should matter to them. You're getting beaten up by the neighborhood bully. Someone even bigger comes along and starts beating the crap out of the bully who is assaulting you. The new guy doesn't care about you, he's beating up the bully for his own selfish reasons. Does that mean you're not grateful to him? You should be. You're not getting the crap knocked out of you anymore, and that's what really matters... There you go again. I have repeatedly explained to you that the sanctions are in place for one reason only: Saddam refuses to give up his WMD. The second he gives up his WMD, *poof*, there go the sanctions. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Do you know why these people blame us for every damn bad thing that's ever happened? Because dumbases like you are constantly blaming us for every damn bad thing that's ever happened. Why do you not blamne Saddam for the sanctions? They're not supposed to be in place right now. In fact, they were supposed to be lifted in late 1991 - when Saddam was supposed to have given up his WMD, in accordance with the cease fire agreement. Blame Saddam for the sanctions for once. That's where the blame belongs.
Hayesstreet said: . Notice that they don't feel this way about GB or France, or any of the other countries that instituted UN sanctions (yes, please remember those were UN sanctions). Only the US. Maybe its that we don't give rights protection to Palestinians You know, Hayes, you might have just proven that they really don't hate the US at all; they just hate those who support the oppression of the Palestinians. Note the others who supported UN sanctions against Iraq have pretty consistently voted against the US and Israel and with the Arabs wrt to Palestinian self determination. Having proven that the Arabs don't really hate us irrationality but because of our misguided support for Israeli going against UN resolutions etc., would it still be necessary to continually fight wars against them? Maybe we should change our uncritical support for Israel's occupation of the post 1976 borders.
